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Scott - Dog Food

Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Scott - Dog Food
By Missbookworm on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:43 am:

Hi Scott,

Hope you're doing great!

Our puppy has been on Medi-Cal puppy and we're ready to switch her to an adolescent food however the vet here doesn't carry her food in adolescent stages and we would have to be constantly ordering it in.

Can you recommend a good adolescent food for a dog that's going to be around 80 pounds that we can buy at the regular store and not have to get it through the vet?

Thanks!

By Scott on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 03:33 pm:

Medi-Cal? Is that a prescription diet?

By Missbookworm on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 05:21 pm:

nope! It's what they were giving her at the shelter so we continued with it. It's ridiculously expensive about $50 for a bag that lasts a month. I was going to continue on the adolescent but my partner says we should switch her food to something easier to get!

I couldn't find the ingredients on the internet for the puppy version and I don't have the bag because we keep it in a pail so she can't get at it...but here are the ingredients for the adolescent version.

Chicken Meal, Brewers Rice, Oat Flour, Corn, Dried Whole Egg, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid and Lecithin), Fish Meal, Yeast Culture, Chicken Digest, Tomato Pomace (Source of Lycopene), Flax Meal, Beet Pulp, Cranberry Meal, Minerals (Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Monosodium Phosphate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Iron Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulphate, Copper Bioplex, Calcium Iodate and Organic Selenium), Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Bacillus Subtilis Dried Fermentation Extract, Taurine, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Inositol, Vitamin C, Niacin, Ascorbyl-Polyphosphate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Beta-Carotene, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Biotin, Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D3), L-Carnitine, L-Glutamine, Docosohexanoic Acid and Alpha-Lipoic Acid.

Since I posted this I've done some research and it says online that they can go on adult food at 5 months but the vet said at 4 months we should put her on adolescent food which it seems only medi-cal has. The vet at the shelter told us medi-cal is good for brain development etc.

Help! lol I want her to have a food that is good for her and meets all the requirements a growing dog needs without having to special order it all the time when we need it.

By Marcia on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 07:36 pm:

We special order from TLC Pet Food. I order online, and it's delivered to my door within a day or 2. It's a completely natural food, and they can eat it for their whole lives. In fact, my sister's breeder said they would only guarantee her Golden's health if they continued feeding her this food. The company is not owned by the breeder.
My dogs both eat their food and cookies.

TLC

It's not cheap, but I think it's worth the money.

By Crystal915 on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 09:16 pm:

I'm wondering if it's a Canadian food? I've never heard of it either.

By Scott on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:09 pm:

Beneful is good food and largely available at better supermarkets and pet shops. Some of my professors have said good things about it.

As for "adolescent chow," I think puppy chow would be adequate for adolescent development. How, exactly, does the nutritional analysis between "adolescent" chow and puppy chow compare?

By Mrs_B on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:06 pm:

I have always used this list as a guide:

http://evergreenholisticvet.com/Documents/food.pdf

There is a more complete list but I can't seem to find it right now. I feed my dogs Canidae and it scores a 112.

Scott, i'm curious at to what you think about this list. According to it, Beneful would score a 17 out of 100 for nutritional value. I know most of my dog friends who are super anal about foods use this list when choosing a good brand.

By Scott on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 06:27 pm:

That list from Evergreen Holistic is a load of dingo's kidneys. I can't understand why they downrate a dog food for containing lamb or beef. It's not like lamb or beef is BAD for dogs. Evergreen also invites clients to "discuss" homemade and raw diets, which is another crock of bollocks. Their website also links to HSUS and other radical "animal rights" organizations and a "vegan" website, so I suspect that the vets there have a goofy sociopolitical agenda.

Anyhow, a healthy dog should be putting out a healthy amount of digestive enzymes and therefore can normally derive nutrition from any dog food approved by AAFCO. Dogs with allergies and digestive disorders need special food, but the vast majority of dogs do quite well on store-bought kibble.

By Mrs_B on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 12:59 pm:

The list didn't originate from that site, but it's all I can find right now. I had the original list saved to my computer but when I had to do a system restore I lost it. It had the Top 100 dog foods and gave a rating system for seeing where your dog food scores on the list.

Where I buy my dogs food, one of the girls told me once not to feed too much of the lamb food until she is at least 18 months old due to the higher amount of protein. Is that true? I alternate between the 3 different flavors anyway but that was the first i've ever heard of that.

By Marcia on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 01:35 pm:

TLC scored 122 on that chart, if I did it correctly.


TLC Whole Life Dog Food Ingredients:
Lamb Meal, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Whole Grain Barley, Whole Brown Rice, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a Natural Source of Vitamin E), Potato, Chicken, Salmon Meal, Chicken Liver, Salmon Oil (Natural Source of DHA), Calcium Carbonate, Flaxseed, Whole Dried Egg, Potassium Chloride, Cultured Yeast, Kelp, Lecithin, Apple, Tomato, Chicory Root Extract, Mannan-oligosaccharides, Choline Chloride, Vitamins, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, Vitamin C , Inositol, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Beta Carotene, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin K, Biotin, Vitamin B12, Minerals, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate , Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Selenium, Taurine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Probiotics, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Enterococcus Faecium, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum, L-carnitine, Chondroitin Sulphate, Thyme, Cassia, Anise, Chamomile, Horseradish, Juniper, Ginger, Rosemary Extract

By Scott on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 04:31 pm:

"Where I buy my dogs food, one of the girls told me once not to feed too much of the lamb food until she is at least 18 months old due to the higher amount of protein. Is that true?"

A dog with a healthy metabolism will metabolize the necessary protein and excrete any protein that isn't needed. So yeah, unfounded concern. Also, younger animals need lots of protein for growing bones and muscles and stuff.

I would question the credentials of the person giving such advice. It seems that a lot of people don't know a whole lot about basic organic chemistry and physiology.

'ingredients: ...Apple, Tomato... Thyme, Cassia, Anise, Chamomile, Horseradish, Juniper, Ginger, Rosemary Extract'

huh? Why the heck are THOSE in there?

By Scott on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 04:34 pm:

"...The list didn't originate from that site, but it's all I can find right now."

That list is hosted on Evergreen Vet's hardware, so they're owning up to it and de facto endorsing it. Also consider that Evergreen Vet links to a "vegan" website which has nothing at all to do with veterinary medicine and everything to do with a suspect sociopolitical movement.

By Marcia on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 05:42 pm:

Here's why...

Whole Life Herbal Pack
TLC’s exclusive Whole Life Herbal Pack is a core component of our Whole Life Natural Dog Food, and includes all natural herbs and vegetables to promote heart, digestive, intestinal and circulatory system health, and to provide healthy skin and coat.

* Anise aids in digestion and helps to eliminate gas and bloat.
* Apple is high in fiber, which aids in keeping the digestive track clear. It is also a natural source of calcium, iron and Vitamins A, C, and K.
* Cassia aids the digestive system and acts as an antiviral agent.
* Chamomile aids the digestive system.
* Chicory Root Extract provides natural fiber and food for the beneficial bacteria required for a healthy intestinal tract. Benefits may include increased nutrient absorption, digestive aid, and immune system support.
* Flaxseed is an excellent source of Omega-3 essential fatty acids, which help to keep the skin and coat healthy, and maintain lower cholesterol levels.
* Ginger to aid digestion, for inflammation control and to provide fresh breath.
* Horseradish is an antibacterial that also adds flavor to the blend.
* Juniper is a gastrointestinal antiseptic that aids in the function of the kidney.
* Kelp is a natural product made from Ascophyllum Nodosum seaweed that is harvested from the sea. It supplies natural vitamins and chelated minerals, which increases the immune and glandular systems and improves the digestive capacity.
* Lecithin aids in the absorption of the other ingredients in TLC Whole Life, and helps to improve the condition of the skin and coat.
* Rosemary Extract is a natural antioxidant, supporting the immune system and heart health.
* Tomato increases blood circulation, provides licopene and acts an antioxidant.
* Thyme is an overall tonic for the functions of the body, and may assist with lack of appetite and indigestion.
* Yucca Schidigera Extract is an anti-inflammatory that reduces joint pain and inflammation. It also reduces urine and stool odor

By Scott on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 07:52 pm:

THIS - 'Juniper is a gastrointestinal antiseptic that aids in the function of the kidney.' GI antiseptic? Against which organisms? And how does it aid kidney function? And does that sentence infer that kidney and GI function are somehow linked?

'Yucca Schidigera Extract is an anti-inflammatory that reduces joint pain and inflammation.' Why does a healthy dog need a chronic dose of anti-inflammatories?

'Cassia aids the digestive system and acts as an antiviral agent.' This, from Wiley Interscience Journals: Abstract: Ethanol extracts of different parts and the calli of Cassia occidentalis, and sequential extracts (petroleum ether, benzene, chloroform, ethanol and water) of whole plant and metabolite-rich fractions (anthraquinones, sennosides and flavonoids) of leaves, pods, flowers and callus have been tested against indicator human pathogenic bacteria and fungi. Likewise, an ethanol extract (whole plant) was tested against selected viruses and for antitumour and cytotoxicity following established protocols. The anthraquinones were found to be more active against E. coli and S. aureus (IZ 22 mm) while sennosides were more active against A. flavus (IZ 28 mm). However, no antiviral, antitumour or cytotoxicity effect was exhibited against the test systems.

I've seen these ingredients listed as supplements and digestive aids in HUMAN food, and I wonder if this witches' brew of herbs and spices has been applied in clinical trials in DOGS. 'Cause dogs have different metabolisms and nutritional needs, y'know.

I'm not saying that this dog food is inadequate in any way. I am suggesting that it has a bunch of stuff in it that probably isn't necessary and may not even be useful to a canine metabolism. I have no personal animus against TLC Foods; I'm applying an objective analysis to it and I'm coming up with a lot of questions...

By Missbookworm on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 08:57 pm:

Well I did some research and found out the Medi-Cal we were giving her was from the same company of the food we choose at the store. Below are the ingredients of the one we chose and the one they recommended we continue her on. She seems to love the one we got and there hasn't been a change in her since we did. :) I'll be watching her to see if there are any changes in her health, coat etc. in the next while.

Ingredients: Chicken meal, rice, corn gluten meal, brown rice, chicken fat, barley, wheat gluten, chicken, natural chicken flavor, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), sodium silico aluminate, psyllium seed husk, potassium chloride, dried egg product, salt, fructo-oligosaccharides, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), monosodium phosphate, L-lysine, taurine, DL-methionine, choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2) supplement, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], Trace Minerals [zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite] , chondroitin sulfate, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of Vitamin E) and citric acid, rosemary extract.

Chicken Meal, Brewers Rice, Oat Flour, Corn, Dried Whole Egg, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid and Lecithin), Fish Meal, Yeast Culture, Chicken Digest, Tomato Pomace (Source of Lycopene), Flax Meal, Beet Pulp, Cranberry Meal, Minerals (Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Monosodium Phosphate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Iron Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulphate, Copper Bioplex, Calcium Iodate and Organic Selenium), Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Bacillus Subtilis Dried Fermentation Extract, Taurine, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Inositol, Vitamin C, Niacin, Ascorbyl-Polyphosphate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Beta-Carotene, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Biotin, Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D3), L-Carnitine, L-Glutamine, Docosohexanoic Acid and Alpha-Lipoic Acid.

I honestly don't understand some of the ingredients in these foods! LOL


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