Sex offenders
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Sex offenders
Has anyone seen on the news lately about what ohio is trying to pass. It is a special license plate that look completly different than the normal ones. I seen it on the news a few days ago. It is a bright green that in the center says sex offender. I personaly think that this is a good idea and every state should do this. I hope that this is something that will happen. What do you all thing? I mentioned it to one of the ladies at dkids school and she said that was an invasion of privacy
this is a link to cbs news that talk a little about it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/national/main2529722.shtml
I can't remember where but they tried to pass something similar for people with DUI's. While I'm all for making it known who they are, I don't think this is going to work. Who's to say they will drive a vehile registered to them?
There's a difference between making the public aware of offenders in their community and targeting those offenders so they're open to vandalism and violence.
The offenders who intend to reoffend will simply work around the measure. The ones who are attempted to live reformed lives are going to be open to harrassment. It honestly doesn't seem like a practical measure. Sometimes I think these increasing measures targeting sex offenders are more about 'seeming' to do something and feeding public fears then anything else.
Well said Dawn.
I'm not sure how I feel about it....
I do however feel that they are not reaching our children enough.I have taught my dd good/bad touch from a young age.We still talk alot about stranger dangers.She's been in school now for 4yrs JK-grade 2 and has one assembly on strangers.I see commercials on tv for kids regarding bullying and drugs but none on inappropriate touching.I think we need to teach our childrem more on it, not being there fault and its nothing to be ashamed of and they need to tell an adult.It will help with these scumballs repeating sickening sex crimes on children.
Personally, I will never rest until all sex offenders are castrated.
I totally agree with Cocoa...
Ditto that...
I'm against it. There are a lot of registered offenders who are "Romeo and Juliet" offenders, they are ostrasized because they were over 18 and their boyf/girlf wasn't. I met my first husband at 16, and he was 18, he could have been prosecuted because we were sexually active, thankfully he wasn't. Also, I have an employee who is registered, for a reason I do not know. When I discovered this, I spoke with HR to make sure they knew. Apparently, whatever he did happened 15 years ago, and was dropped, but he's required to register for a certain amount of time. He's a nice man, with a wife and children, I'd hate to see someone judged and humiliated like that because people will always assume the worst case scenario for someone being on the registry.
I don't know exactly how I feel about this. On one hand, I see how it could mark you for life for something like Crystal described. On the other hand, if you don't want the mark for life, maybe it would stop people from doing it!
When I said that all sex offenders should be castrated, I was talking about the dangerous ones. So, I guess Crystal has a point- there is no way at this time of determining the dangerous ones from the not-so dangerous ones.
So, if the issues that Crystal suggested are to be fixed, then the solution would be to refine the registries to reflect the degree of danger that the individual might pose to the public.
There is no reason why a girl needs to have sex at sixteen. Sorry, Crystal, I see your point, but disagree. An 18 year old is able to bide into contracts, etc but a 16 year old is a minor. Then the issues of abortion, pregnancy and stds' come up. The law is the law. An 18 year old should not have sex with a minor. Period. A 16 year old does not have the mindset to think about the longterm events that could happen. That is why we as parents have to protect our teenagers.
A sexual offender is just that. There are no pretty words for it. I don't think having a special license plate will help. Maybe a scarlet letter on their foreheads would.
Maybe we should ask all the little kids who have been raped (the word molestated just doesn't cut it for me when babies are concerned) and the parents of those little kids, to come up with a solution. I'm sure it would not be as simple as a separate licence plate.
Castration doesn't solve the problem. Rapists who have been castrated turn to other forms of violence against women. There are pedophiles who have been voluntarily castrated, and have molested children afterwards. You are confusing plumbing with deep-seated, probably incurable psychological issues.
Ohio has plates that are yellow with red lettering if you are a repeat drunk driving offender. The suggested sex offender plates are neon green with white lettering..
I can't see any good come from it..
It's "The Scarlet Letter" for th 21st century. Bad idea then, bad idea now. These people have an illness. Should we give all people with mental illness who have assaulted others in the past (perhaps when they were undiagnosed or not in treatment) a scarlet letter plate, too?
This really leaves little chance for a person who is trying to change the opportunity to do so. If you have been convicted of a crime and paid your debt to society by serving whatever sentence was imposed, then you're done.
Everyone has civil liberties. This would be a violation of them.
Ame
Ame, in general I agree with you. But I have such mixed feelings about pedophiles (and I don't consider the 18-21 year old man with a 16 year old girl a pedophile - a sexual offender, exploitive, yes, but not a pedophile). Pedophilia, sexually molesting children (under 14 and usually much younger) appears to be a deepseated psychological condition that, from what I've read, so far seems not to be curable. Some have indeed been able to stop, but most, again from what I've read, don't - and if an "opportunity" arises, will abuse another child. Likelihood of being caught doesn't seem to be a deterrent, and, I've read, nor does castration.
So I just don't know. I don't, intellectually, agree with license plates or residency restrictions, partly because I am afraid they'd become a "slippery slope" and partly because I think they can lead to vigilante actions (there have been some vigilante type activities when the addresses of released offenders were made public, and at least one homicide that I know of). And yet, given that (again, from what I've read) it is a condition that appears at present to be incurable - what do you do? One state has experimented with permanent incarceration, in a mental facility after release from prison, and that is presently in the courts.
Is there a solution - I don't know. I do know that this is something that troubles me greatly every time it comes up and I think about it.
I don't think there should be a license plate. They should be in jail, end of story. I don't think we (universal, people who aren't sex offenders) should be fighting for a license plate. We should be fighting to have these people put in jail forever. Castration would make me smile, but I don't think it would eliminate sex offenders. They should be removed from society forever.
Having said that, I also don't think the term "sex offender" should be applied to the people that Crystal mentioned, meaning those who are adults and have consentual sex with a minor. (18 and 16) That is NOT the same as child molestation and it should be noted that way. Those people should be "labeled" differently IMO, because I do not see them as a threat to society.
Every time the sex offender registry is printed in the newspaper I get nauseated. Why am I having to protect myself from these people by checking who lives near me or my family? Aren't their jails for that? Tax evaders get more time than pedophiles. It's an absolute joke.
Having said that, I also don't think the term "sex offender" should be applied to the people that Crystal mentioned, meaning those who are adults and have consentual sex with a minor. (18 and 16) That is NOT the same as child molestation and it should be noted that way. Those people should be "labeled" differently IMO, because I do not see them as a threat to society.
I think this could be tricky. What age difference is ok? What age are you able to have consentual sex? I honestly believe that these teachers that are having sex with students are molesters, but if it is "consentual", would they not be offenders?
Part of the issue, Vicki and others, is how old does a child have to be to give knowing, understanding consent? In the case of the teachers (and priests, pastors, youth group leaders, boy scout / girl scout leaders, etc.) you have a person in a position of authority / leadership initiating or promoting a relationship with a kid. That is, imo, automatically wrong. Most colleges have rules about instructors having relationships with students, and there you are dealing with students who are usually 18 and older - and that is because the instructor has influence by being able to give/change grades. With people in authority/leadership roles with teenagers, we all know that teenagers are a bunch of hormones and not very bright about what those hormones are saying - for an adult to take advantage of that is totally wrong. I don't think those people who have sex with teenagers are necessarily pedophiles, but they have certainly "contributed to the delinquency of a minor" and have used their position to take advantage of a teen who is not capable of having or exercising good judgment - and probably have done permanent damage to the teen's ability to develop future, appropriate relationships absent serious long-term counseling. (I just googled marriage laws, and in many states persons under 16 can marry with parental approval and, in some states, court approval - in one state persons under 14 can marry with parental and court consent. So much for "age of consent".)
A college student who has sex with a teenager, where the older person is not in a position of authority/leadership, or a 18 year old boy and a 16 year old girl, is another story. I still think it's wrong, and if I were the parent of a girl in that situation I would be heading for whatever recourse - criminal and civil - that the law allows. But I also remember that my parents kept very close tabs on me and certainly did not allow me to date boys more than a year or two older than me until I was 18 - my ex-dh is 4-1/2 years older than me and I was not quite 19 when we married (dumb, dumb, dumb). I do agree, Vicki, that the older person in that age range/differential should not come under the "sex offender" category. I believe I read of a teenage boy who was put in that category for having sex with a girl who was the same age or only a year younger, because of the laws in that state.
The sex offender laws, however, were written primarily in reaction to incidents of pedophilia - sex by an adult with a child under 12 and who had not entered or had just begun puberty (which now, we are told, begins at around age 9 or 10 at the latest) and often even younger, and that, to my mind, is a totally different category. It is generally deemed incurable except in rare instances (again, from what I've read and I have *not* read extensively). And I don't know how we, as a society, protect our children from these predators. I do think that, given all of the research that says an abused child often becomes an abuser, that we ought to automatically spend whatever money it takes for serious long-term therapy for such victims with the goal of enabling them to have appropriate adult relationships and be less likely to themselves become abusers. I also think that when a child is abused by the partner of the child's mother, all children should be removed from that mother's control - I find it very difficult to believe that a mother would not know unless she chose to not see what was happening and chose to ignore all the signals.
When I'm thinking of the 18/16, 19/16, 20/17...I'm thinking of myself and my friends who definitely were having sex at the younger age with their older boyfriends. That's technically illegal, but done everyday by 2 "kids" who are having sex because they're boyfriend/girlfriend. I can't imagine though wanting to take legal action because my dd or ds was having sex with someone a few years older than they are. Bf/gf's are going to have sex. If you know they're dating, you can't assume/expect they're not having sex at those ages.
Totally agree with Ginny about teachers,pastors, authority figures who are having sex with minors. That's completely different because they are in a position of authority as Ginny said.
Vicki - To answer your questions, I guess legally our society has said that you can have consentual sex at 18, but that's certainly NOT a reality. Like I said, if my dd were dating an 18yr old at age 16, the two of them having sex would not be against in the law in my mind. It might be against my wishes or my "rules" but not a legal infraction to me. I think the teachers who are having sex are breaking the cardinal rule of the trust of an authority figure, both for the parents and all the students. As a teacher or someone of authority you're taking an unspoken oath (I think) to be true and honest with your students, families, congregation, whatever. I also see those people as a form of a child molester.
That is the issue with "Romeo and Juliet" clauses, they have trouble defining what age difference is ok. A friend of mine was 15 and living in Alaska, her 19 year old boyfriend was sent to jail, is now a registered offender, even though she testified that it was consentual sex. That is a big gap, but not unheard of. Like I said, I was 16 when I started dating my first husband, and we were sexually active, he was 18. I really think that is an issue that needs to be dealt with on a case by case issue, you can't say "It's the parent's call", because some parents may be more inclined to prosecute than others. You have to take all of the facts, age of the minor, maturity, and such like any juvenile case. As for a teacher or other authority figure, that cannot be considered consentual, no matter what the minor may think, because of the position the offender holds. It is a form of sexual harassment, just as a boss becoming involved with an employee, and considering the adult in that situation is expected to use better judgement, I do feel it is a sexual crime.
Now, for the legitimate predators, I still don't think a license plate is the answer. Rape is almost always a crime of anger/power, not sex. The rapist is exerting power over the victim USING sex, so the suggestion of castration is useless, because the rapist would find another way to violate their victim. A pedophile is a completely different story, and I think we can all agree that we need to take any measures possible to protect our children from pedophiles (again, what good is castration, they can still violate their victims, and not all pedophiles or rapists are male), but let's be honest, a plate on a car isn't going to do it. Neither is a sign in the front yard (an idea that has been bounced around), or any other "scarlet letter". All that will do is create a hysteria, it will not prevent crime.
Rob is 6 years older than me.. I was 16 on the verge of 17 and he had just turned 23.. Honestly, I was more mature than he was and still am nearly 20 years later.. In our case, my maturity came from my up bringing and his lack of maturity came from his lack of up bringing... We are like a pair of old shoes and always have been..
I agree that it needs to be handled on a case by case bases.. DF of mine from high school is registered as a sex offender.. He was 18 and she claimed to be 16.... Turned out she was 14 and her mom didn't really seem to care until she discovered that DD had snuck out at night. I know both sides, had lost contact with him but knew her family well enough to know what drove her mom.. I also know she had ran around town lying about her age and dressing much older than even 16 years old. Her mom bought the clothes, knew of her behaviors and knew she lied about her age. 34 years old and can't live near a school and I bet if anyone did an offender search they wouldn't let their children play with in yards of his children.. His biggest mistake was trusting a stranger and haven't we all done that??? Your DH's told you how old they were and you took them on their word.. You didn't have them produce three forms of identification and a letter from his mother before you agreed to date him..
I'm appalled at the viciousness of some of this thread. ALL child abuse is terrible, but that does not mean that we have to reduce ourselves to barbarians. If one looks up crime statistics on all forms of child abuse in the U.S. (Check out Dept. of Justice website) one quickly finds that females do more of this than males: only in one catergory (sexual) do males do more. The other categories include starvation and other denial of basic needs, beatings and similar physical abuse, etc. What would some of the above authors have us do to these latter offenders? Cut off their arms or legs so that they can never do this again? And in the area of sexual abuse by females, what sexual mutilation do you propose? This vicious baloney about castration should be seen for what it is: vindictive, anti-male sadism.
Wells, if you read the thread a bit more carefully, you will see that the idea of castration was swiftly rejected as not being effective. While I understand the male reaction (usually accompanied by a hand to the sensitive area) to the idea of harm to vital parts, I believe *you* are over-reacting. I don't read any anti-male sadism in this thread, though there are indeed sadistic thoughts about men who sexually abuse children. I would also point out that the entire thread is about sexual abuse. I don't know if your statistics about other forms of child abuse are accurate and I'd like to know your source. And I agree, all forms of child abuse are reprehensible. Nonetheless, this thread is specifically about sexual abuse of children.
Oh-kay.
I am responsible for bringing in the "sadistic" element to this thread regarding castration, partly as a way to lighten up the conversation.
However, when you have a child who has been sexually abused, you will understand why someone could think such thoughts about the perpetrator.
Ditto Cocoa! I haven't experienced that, but quite honestly "murder" would be on my mind if I could get a hold of the person who sexually molested my child and changed her life forever.
I don't think this conversation or thoughts about child molesters is sadistic at all. Of all the criminals in the world, they are the worst IMO. I don't feel a bit of sadness for them and I don't care if their "sick". They should all be locked away FOREVER after the FIRST offense to a child.
Crystal - Ditto everything you said about underage consentual sex.
Wells, "vindictive, anti-male sadism", really?
"only in one category (sexual) do males do more", this is what this thread is about and whether those required to register as a sex offender should be required to drive around with neon green plates.. Not whether a woman that threw her baby in a cage and didn't feed him/her should drive around with pick plates on her car..
We seem to all agree about fear of vigilante justice. Thus if we were male bashing, seeings that the majority of sexual offenders are male, then we would be fine with this purposed law... Wouldn't you think???
Castration has been suggested for centuries, yet it isn't an acted upon action towards the people that go out and sexually abuse children. Molestation and Rape of a child (a person in general) is more so about the control and fear they put into the child, not sexual gratification, so what purpose would it serve..
Maybe we should tattoo their foreheads instead??
Bobbie- It would be easier that way!  (Tattooing the foreheads)
But of course that would cause violence against sex offenders, just like the plates would. Oh, so sad for them. Instead our children walk around like open targets.
I'm just thinking that the whole problem is that we have to have a "tag" for these people...a plate, a tattoo, a spot on a registry somewhere or on a website. If they have to "tagged" as dangerous, WHY AREN'T THEY IN JAIL??!!!
I think an island where they can just rot would be fine by me.You cannot fix these people .Some men like brunettes,some like reds and some like children. You cannot change someone's preferences.I also believe labelling them will not work.It would just increase crime.Who would drive around being labelled as a sex offender?A special island where they can't be part of society will do it.
I am all for an island like that. Just get them and ship them off to an island and weekly drop supplies that they need on it.. no internet or any way to contact anyone off the island except maybe for medical reasons.
Wish that could actually happen but it won't because they have as many rights as anyone else. Sometimes it seems they have more rights than the rest of us.
BTW I was joking around about the castration thing.. I know it doesn't work just wishful thinking that if it worked it would be a much easier solution.
We would be forever chasing them, to put them on the "island".. Every generation has newer, smarter preditors... They learn from the mistakes made by the ones before them.. There is no easy cure for this and apparently there isn't someone out there level headed enough to decide..
I'm appalled at the viciousness of some of this thread. ALL child abuse is terrible, but that does not mean that we have to reduce ourselves to barbarians. If one looks up crime statistics on all forms of child abuse in the U.S. (Check out Dept. of Justice website) one quickly finds that females do more of this than males: only in one catergory (sexual) do males do more. The other categories include starvation and other denial of basic needs, beatings and similar physical abuse, etc. What would some of the above authors have us do to these latter offenders? Cut off their arms or legs so that they can never do this again? And in the area of sexual abuse by females, what sexual mutilation do you propose? This vicious baloney about castration should be seen for what it is: vindictive, anti-male sadism.
I find it curious that you joined this board only to post on the few threads of this nature. Why are you here?
As was said somewhere before, when *most* of us moms here think of sex offender or sexual predator, we are thinking of MEN who use their penis to sexually abuse/rape/torture children. And YES, it IS TORTURE.
In this particular thread, the issue was not abuse, as in starvation, neglect, beatings, it was sex offenders. And while I don't agree with license plates, Scarlet letters, or the like because they are pointless, I wonder why true sex offenders are released and thrown back into society? So what if it's a mental illness? Wouldn't it HAVE to be, for it to happen in the first place? I mean, it is hardly what could be considered even bordering on *normal* in ANY case.
They aren't going anywhere, each generation will have new ones, I don't know what makes a person that way, but I DO know that if MY child were raped/sexually molested/tortured by a man, I'd certainly want to cut his tools off.
However, when you have a child who has been sexually abused, you will understand why someone could think such thoughts about the perpetrator.
Ditto that!!!!! My granddaughter was molested by my daughter's fiance when she was barely 2 years old. I've never posted about this before, and I'm not going into details now. It is too sickening and heartbreaking for me to rehash. The judicial system in this state? A pure joke!!!! Had it been up to me, you can bet he wouldn't have had such a cushy outcome. Had it been up to me, he would have suffered GREATLY.
Am I vindictive? Well, if that makes me vindictive, OH WELL! I'm not anti-male nor sadistic. I would only like to see JUSTICE served. It wasn't.
No one asked all of the sexually molested/raped/tortured kids what THEY wanted - why should I care what these animals want?
Please...........this is ridiculous............ and defending them is unconscionable.....
YES!!!! Karen!
Karen, I totally agree with you, and as far as Wells is concerned, I have to wonder, also, why he is lurking around and only posts on this thread. There are plenty of other sites to go to for movie and TV reviews.
I live with the results of childhood sexual abuse everyday. I have two adopted sons who were their step-father's sexual play thing from the ages of 3 and 2, respectively, until the ages of 7 and 6, when they were finally taken away, with their sister, from him and their birth mother (who also was abused by this monster) by child protective services.
While they are loving, caring and productive young men now, they still carry scars and always will. My older one still has to have a night light to sleep, will not sleep with a top sheet on his bed (neither boy will) because they feel trapped. They will not use the YMCA locker room because there are men who are undressed in there. My husband has to be fully dressed in his own house, (shirt, trousers, etc) because they are afraid of men in any state of undress. They used to have an aversion to personal hygiene, and would not shower without my supervision. They were probably repeatedly molested in the shower. Also, a counselor said that they felt that if they smelled, they would be left alone. My younger son has learning disabilities and a severe hand tremor that interferes with activities like writing, and fine motor skills.
They have had endless hours of counseling, and take medication for post-traumatic stress disorder. Their sister, who was adopted by another couple a year before they were, is 16 and has been sexually active and promiscuous since age 12. When she was a small child, she cut off all of her hair and used to cut herself. And these children were the "lucky" ones. They were rescued.
The man who did this to them was sentenced to 25 years and did 6 months with the remainder suspended. Unless he is dead, which we can only hope, he is out there hurting other children. I show NO quarter to these individuals. I believe that they SHOULD be castrated, and then imprisoned for the rest of their natural lives. Let them become victims from others of their ilk.
It isn't sexism, it isn't anti-male, it isn't sadistic. It is called JUSTICE!!
Karen, I am SO sorry.
Well IMHO I listen to people say it is an invasion of thier privacy and opening them up to vandalism and things but what did they take from the person or persons they sexually assualted.
I was sexually assualted by my uncle when I was 11 years old. He was arrested a few days later and was sentenced to 6 months probation. While on probation he raped his 3 year old daughter. When there was more investigation into it they found out that there wasn't very many children in our neighborhood that he didn't at least try to assualt and a whole lot that he did assualt. For the last 10 years I have fought to keep him in an institution. He was ordered to have extreme therapy but he refuses because he swears that we are all liars. I have went back to court a few times to testify as an adult and I can honestly tell you that everytime I have to face him I feel like a scared little girl again. He took something from me that I can never get back and I truly hate him for it. He didn't have a preference for boys or girls. He liked them all. I pray that he stays locked up until he takes his last breath and I will fight with all I can to make sure of that. I can't imagine him doing that to another child. I do believe they should be castrated and never allowed back into the free world.
I don't know if any of you remember me posting last year about what happened to my DSD but her stepfather was sexually molesting her for 2 years before she told anyone. She told me while helping me paint our bathroom. She just broke down ans started to cry. When I asked what was wrong she wouldn't tell me at first but then she just had to tell someone and I was there. We called the police and handled everything but he wasn't arrested. He was just told that he had to move out of the house and was not allowed contact with her until they did an investigation. Well he knew exactly what it was about because 2 days later he killed himself. My thoughts were the world was rid of one more sicko. But that made things worse for her. She felt responsible and totally withdrew form everyone. She still will not come to visit us. I think she needs to be angry with someone and the one person she should be mad at is gone so she is projecting it on her dad. My point is that people like that should not be allowed in society. They can't jsut stop. It is a sickness but that doesn't mean let them run free to do it again. It is an uncureable sickness and if someone had TB they would out them in quartine and that is what we should do woth people like that.
Karen, I am truly sorry for what happened to your grandbaby.
And Latonya, I for one am truly sorry for what you and your DSD have been through.. I hope she is able to find strength and peace.. (((BIG HUGS)))
Latonya - Your first line says it all...yes, yes, yes! When you take that from someone, you shouldn't have any more rights. I'm sorry for what you went through, and for your DSD as well.
Thanks guys. The things that happened to me was 21 years ago and my DSD was only 2 years ago. The reason I say this is because I want people who think these people should be able to start over to understand that the people they hurt do not get that. We have to live with it for the rest of our lives. We may grow and find peace but it is still there. I thought I was done with it until out of the blue I got a letter asking me to come back to court and I found out that I hadn't dealt with. I just tried to bury it and you can't do that because it will come back one day. His daughter that he raped still can't hold her head up and look people in the face. She is in her 20's now. His son, which I am sure he hurt him too, killed himself a few years back.
These people who hurt children do not know what they have done to that person. Some people think if it happens when they are very young that they won't remember but they can never forget.
As for my DSD, well I don't really know since she won't talk to us much anymore. The person who hurt her is gone but they are still hurting her and has hurt her relationship with her father.
People who do this stuff, wether it be man or woman, should be locked up for the rest of their lives. No one should be allowed to tear someones world apart and then go on with theirs as though nothing ever happened.
For all those who think we should leave them be:
What would you do if you were this childs parent? Would you feel the same if this man did this to your little boy or girl? Or would you want him jail forever or worse?
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=79433
Sorry I still don't know how to make it a link.
I don't want to offend anyone. I just want people to look at this from the view of the parents. I think it is easy to say let them start over if it has never happened to you or your child. I pray that those of you who do not know first hand never have too. It really is aweful and trying to get past it is not as easy as that.
I was sexually abused as a child...and I say lock them up, throw away the key...period.
I'm sick every time I hear of another "reformed" pedophile released back into society. I firmly believe that the deep seated psychological issues that lead a grown man to want to do any of that to a child isn't something that can be overcome.
Do I live a normal life now? Most days but I have to say yes. I still suffer from flash backs and deep seated fear and it's always in the corner of my mind that I'm going to be a victim again even as a grown woman and some days I'm downright scared.
I should have said woman too...or used person
Latonya. it is \ link{ copy paste the link here , the title to the link here } Take out all the spaces and make sure you get the comma in between the link and the title of the link... Not hard at all...
First Coast News
That is the spaces between the punctuation and the words, not the spaces between the words.. LOL Thought I should clarify that... When you hit Preview/Post you should see the title to the link underlined as above.
Thanks, Bobbie!!
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