Can I open up to you ladies re: personal issues?
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive May 2004:
Can I open up to you ladies re: personal issues?
I'm not going to post anon here because I really need advice and since i've been here almost a year now I figured i'd get better advice if you girls knew who I was and you know a lot about me.
I don't know if you girls remember back in January there was a post re: DH cheating while overseas in Thailand (with prostitutes) in May 2001 and I had just found out this past January by accidentally coming upon it in his medical records. Yup, it was me.  Well it was an extremely difficult time for me because I was extremely heartbroken and could do nothing but lay in bed and cry. It took a lot of soul searching to find out where I wanted him in my life, if at all. What I came upon was that I have not been happier in my life than I am with him. We were at a rocky spot in our relationship then and I guess thats how he dealt with it. But now we hardly ever argue, I enjoy every moment with him, we enjoy our family time with Kaitlyn and our time at night by ourselves after shes in bed. The life now could be closely compared to perfect in my eyes.
As far as his adultery, we did go to counseling for a few sessions and I felt like I wasnt ready to talk about it openly and it hurt so bad that I could do nothing but cry the whole time so we stopped going. We talked to the pastor and DH confessed to him and they said a prayer together asking God for his forgiveness and I told DH I wanted to personally renew our vows so that I felt they meant something. I guess I needed some sort of closure and something to start a new beginning.
My only problem now is that was 4 months ago. I would say for the most part that i'm TRYING to move on and leave the the past in the past. Except for the fact that I have dreams about DH cheating on me 2-3 times a week. The dreams are mostly with the Thai women but some are with friends from my past, random neighbors we dont talk to etc... and I wake up hurt all over again and sometimes mad. I dont know what to do but I feel that its mentally draining me and I sometimes am distant towards DH when I first wake up because of that hurt I feel. It also affected our lives in general. For a while I couldnt stand seeing an "asian" looking women in public because thats all I could think of, I hate when DH (sorry for graphics) masturbates because I associate it with dirty, nasty self gratification and we argue if he does because it makes me feel hurt. We gave up porn completely (which is something I had wanted to do anyways because I dont think its right for married couples). I guess overall in the trust and "physical" aspects of our relationship i'm having trouble. I really want to fix this and let is pass so we can continue on making our relationship great.
I guess I needed a bit of a vent and maybe some words of encouragement. I dont feel like I have full closure until these dreams go away and I want them to so badly.
(I also wanted to let you girls know its taken A LOT of thought for me to come out to you but I think I really need advice. I feel like with counseling on base they treat me like a number since so many spouses have cheated. And I hope some of you girls know me enough to give some good advice.)
I applaud you for working to try to save your marriage. I think it's wonderful that you can still see the good things. I can only imagine what you are going through. I think one can forgive without truly ever forgetting. I really think you need to find a place where you feel comfortable and seek counseling for yourself. It sounds like you are still hurting so much.
(((Melissa))) Boy, ! You have been through alot.
and I am sorry that you are still hurting , I think I would be too by all means.Also, I think you did the right thing by opening up to the board.You will get a lot of good advice.
When you said that you still have dreams about your dh cheating the only thing that I thought of was that you need to talk about this more.
Counseling can be very difficult if you don`t find one that you trust and can connect with.
Can you go off base to another counselor? Is there anyone else you can talk with about this? Sorry that I wasn`t of much help , I know
that you will get some more answers from other Mom`s posting or perhaps some BTDT Mom`s.
Good luck ! You will be in my prayer`s.
I am so sorry for what you have gone through. Have you tried writing a letter to your husband? I sounds so simple, but it really works. When I was young my dad cheated on my mom and walked out on us. About 10 years ago I wrote him a letter explaining how I felt. I never mailed the letter to him, but a few years later the opportunity came up for us to have a heart to heart talk. Because of writing the letter and fully expressing how I felt, I could then explain in words those same feelings. Does that make sense? You can give him the letter or just use it as an opportunity to organize your feelings and thoughts. I also believe that by asking God to be a part of this struggle you will find guidance. I will keep your family in my prayers.
Since it seems most of your emotions now are stemming from your dreams, I would recommend doing some research into summoning dreams you want. It may sound "hokey" but I am a huge believer in searching inner strength to overcome most problems in life. I checked your profile and saw you and dh are very young, you have a long life ahead of you and to be in the perfect relationship for you takes a lot of trust to be able to say after what has happened, I applaud you for that. You should be proud of both you and dh and your relationship, try focusing on that, go to bed each night saying thank you for that and being proud and happy for that and your wonderful child.
Again, look for inner strength and strength from you dh, I have been through many tough issues in my life and if I did not have a great relationship w/ myself I think I would have broke long ago and don't believe counseling could have helped much, and it didn't work for you either so pat yourself on the back for coming this far. Oh and about the masturbation thing, you should be more worried if he didn't LOL, that's just a guy for ya
Hang in there you are doing fabulously!
Thank you girls so much for your support. I may have to try writing a letter just due to the fact that I have so many emotions in me right now and when I try to explain them all to DH its just a big confusing mess. And Kym, I may also research the meaning of dreams. Thank you so much for pointing out the good in our relationship. It gives me so much more hope for overcoming this.
You should go back to counseling at least by yourself. You may also want to talk to your dh about your dreams. If you are both commited to this relationship you need to lay it all out on the table. A friend of mine cheated on her dh once & told him about it, he said he forgave her & that was that. Afew months later he cheated on her. They have beem married for 4 years with a total of 3 affairs,because they didn't work it all the way out. Just because you are having dreams doesn't mean you are having doubt, but if you are closing up after the dreams he is going to think you have doubt.
I am so sorry you have to go through this. Try to remember we are not given more than we can handle & things will work out in the end. I will keep you & your family in my thoughts.
I think it's not something you are just going to "get over". Congrats for trying to work this out, I don't know what I would do if I was in your shoes, but trying counseling again may be the answer. I think you need to let your dh know how upset you are over this whole thing, maybe let him read this post? Good luck.
{{{Melissa}}} I agree with Colette that this is not something you are just going to "get over". Your trust has been broken and it will take a long time to build that up again. If both of you are committed to your relationship it can be worked out, but it could be a long process and won't necessarily be easy. Here is a web site that is a great resource concerning marriage. Hope it helps. {{{HUGS}}}
MarriageBuilders.com
Oops, let's try that link again.
MarriageBuilders.com
Melissa,
I agree writing a letter is a wonderful way to vent. Also telling him you need to sit down and talk about it, hash it out with him so you can get it off your chest. I know it sounds like a form of torture, but it can work wonders. Sometimes, when you are hurt or scared, it can help SO much to make the person behind it listen to you. Even if you just need to rant and yell and cry at that person. This is JMHO, because it has worked for me. You have to decide if it will work for you. Good luck, and let us know how you are feeling! (((Melissa)))
Melissa, I have never been there but I can totally understand your feelings. Four months since your discovery is really a short time. I don't think I would be able to get over something like that in only four months. That he masturbates and does it in such a way that you know about it is something that would also be very hurtful to me - it would feel like rejection.
I agree with those above who suggesst that you go back into counseling, for yourself. Yes, couple counseling would be a good idea, but right now I think you need to have someone for just you to talk to, to get your feelings out on the table without any concern for what your husband might feel (which is always a difficulty in couple counseling), and deal with them.
That your dreams are part of the problem is clear, but it seems to me that your dreams stem from your knowledge of what happened and fears about what may have happened that you don't know about. And I don't think you can control your dreams until you get your daytime feelings and thinking sorted out, which is where counseling would be helpful.
I know you are strongly church related, but I suggest you try to find a counselor who is not related to your church. It is very difficult to be totally honest with someone whom you see every Sunday, and counseling can't really help unless you feel free to be totally honest - which is why a counselor who is otherwise a stranger may be a better choice. I know that one of the former pastors of my church works in a counseling group of people who are church-related and religion oriented, and I am sure there are other such counseling groups in other areas. Certainly you will want and need a counselor who understands that your faith and religion are an important part of who you are, and not every counselor can truly appreciate that.
Lots of hugs. I feel like I want to just hold you and say "you're alright, baby - it's not your fault".
Wow!
I have complete respect for you. I know if something like that happened to me I would have done exactly as you have. It will take a long time before you can fully trust him. Counselling sounds like excellent advice. You need to work through this. I'm not sure how much I would discuss with dh. Emotions can run very high, he may feel like you should just get over it. I hope he understands how much damage something like this will do to a marriage, and how much time it will take to mend. Time will heal with full understanding on his part.
Big hug. Remember it is completely "normal" and "healthy" to have and move through all those feelings you are having. If you don't, depression, hostility etc will creep into other areas of your life. Don't feel like you have to get over this and get on with your lives....unfortunately it's not the answer or that easy.
Melissa, What you are going through is a typical reaction to what has happened. You need to give yourself more time to heal. You need to find a way to vent this stuff off of your chest and not get past it but come to terms with it. Your DH hurt you deeply. He hurt the both of you deeply. But, Melissa, you need to start taking control over your feelings and impower yourself.
Dreams about cheating spouses are said to stem from our fears of abandonment and self worth. Basically we have a under lying fear of being left and because we feel our value is so low we work up situations in our heads that would make our biggest fears come to life (dreams). Your DH however can not help what you are dreaming. And he did what he did and he has tried so hard to do right by you and DD even before you knew what had happened. Correct??? IF he didn't love you and IF he hadn't wanted to be with you to begin with he would have not stayed with you. So you need to find away to stop being afraid (which is going to take time). Fear and self worth... You have a right to be happy and you have a right to a good life...... And you need to stop beating yourself and your DH up.
And I think that a recommitment would be good. ONLY if you are in a state of mind to feel in your heart that it is a recommitment not just actions..... Get my meaning?
And BIG HUGS, Good job on coming out with this. I am proud of you...
First, I want you to know that I am very sorry you have to go through this, especially with such a young child to care for in the process. (Wish her a happy birthday for me!)
You don't know me. I am new, and I have only contributed a little to the board, but the emotion in your post touched me.
I have no experience with marital infidelity, but the one thing that hit me in your post was that you said that you wanted to "fix this and let it pass."
This may sound corny, but I was reminded of an old episode of "Zena: Warrior Princess" (well, I guess all those episodes are old now!), where, at the end of the show, Zena is sitting with Gabrielle on the shore of a lake or pond. She throws a stone into the water. Gabrielle asked her why she did that. Zena's reply was, "I am now like this lake; I've thrown that stone in, and now this lake is forever changed."
You are forever changed by the stone of your husband's infidelity. There is no fix, and you will never be able to go back to the way things were before this. This is the sacrifice you make to keep your daughter's home intact.
I know this is hard to accept, and I debated on whether to post this. But I fell that the sooner you stop trying to go back to the past, the easier it will be to move on and try to heal in a way in which you can begin to function as fully as possible as a wife.
You may benefit from individual counseling, but eventually your husband will need to rejoin you in counseling as well. The one thing that may give you peace may be knowing that your husband understands that you are forever changed, that he may perhaps never be able to fully regain your trust, and that he needs to be patient with you. That is the sacrifice he makes to keep his daughter's home intact.
I hope this helps. May God be with you.
Sigh....this must be just so hard and painful for you. I am really really sorry to know that you are hurting this way. I can not imagine how you must feel.
I wanted to echo a lot of what the other women have said to you and offer my own penny's worth. While the last four months probably have seemed like years, it still has been such a very short time. Your feelings about this are extremely important and significant. The natural human response is to want the hurt to go away and to resort to whatever we have in our psychological bag of tricks to cope, whether 'healthy' or not. Who wants to hurt?! We are all trying to survive and be great mama's as best we can.
I strongly encourage you to be really authentic with yourself and allow yourself to feel whatever it is you feel about all of this. For myself, I found therapy to be most helpful because I had to constantly be real and honest with myself even when it hurt a lot or wasn't very pretty. I too am very involved in my church community and tried to see a counselor associated with my church. I found that it was more effective for me to see someone completely outside of my life who could be totally unbiased. It is a difficult process that feels like the emotional equivalent of climbing everest....however, there will come a day when you can look behind you and look at the victory of tackling the pain in your life, feeling it, releasing it and ultimately having feelings of forgiveness. There will come a day when this will not be the kind of pain you are feeling now, but it is going to take some intentional hard work on your part to be able to move on.
That is the real stinker of all of this, that even though you did not create this situation, you are, unfortunately, left with the responsibility of doing the hard work within yourself to facilitate healing. My prayer for both of you is that your husband will be able to really hear you again, and again and that he will be able to support your healing process.
Im so sorry that this can't just go away for you.
I will be thinking and praying for you all.
Great point by Cocoabutter! You can't go back to the way things were, but you can go forward. Good luck!
Thank You ALL for your advice. I've been reading but don't reply to the posts in the afternoon since DH is home. He hates that I talk about personal stuff online.
I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that for so long I couldnt openly talk about it to DH. He would make comments like "That was almost 2 years ago, get over it!" But to me it was all new because I had just found out. In his mind it was a very long time ago and he was able to erase it from his memory and it only hurt him more to hear me talk about it because he could sense the hurt in me, he knew when I was going to cry before I even could. About 2 weeks ago I finally mentioned my dreams to him and for once he didnt lash out. My DH is great, but when it comes to this particular subject I think I suffer a lot of emotional abuse and deep wounds. When I first found out his comment was "I did it because I thought you were cheating on me. If you were nicer on the phone this wouldnt have happened." I know its not true. If hes gonna do it, he will do it. But it hurt to hear him say it and to this day if I ask him if that comment is true he says yes. Hes also been the "let it go" type. He doesnt want me/us to deal with it. He wants to ignore it and move on with life. I think hes just now starting to see what long terms affects could develop it I dont do something about this.
And Bobbie- about the turning my dreams into reality, very true! There have been times when I freak because he doesnt answer his cell. The "normal" Melissa would know that hes at work and very busy!!! But how I was at first was different. It was like, which girls house is he at? Or stupid stuff like that.
I know i've come a long way in the past 4 months but I realize there is so much more left to heal. I do have to realize Bobbies comment that he HAS tried so hard to fix this problem and to make everything great for me and our DD. And I have no reason that hes given me to suspect ANYTHING because of his actions lately. (Though I had no reason to suspect anything then.)
Thank you to all your wonderful women once again. Believe it or not, opening up on here has only helped me on my long road to recovery.
(((Melissa))) There is not much that I can add here that hasn't already been said. Please know that I honestly am hurting for you. I feel terrible that this has happened to you. I really don't know how I would be able to move on, and I imagine that is why you are having a tough time. You sound like such a truly wonderful person online, and I'm sure you are just as wonderful if not more in person. I hope that your dh sees that. Honestly, and I hope I'm wrong, it sounds like your dh doesn't see this. I think he has a lot of growing up to do. The comment about it being your fault because you weren't more nice on the phone seriously makes me angry. You poor, poor girl. I just want to hug you! This is not your fault, this was never your fault. He needs to work with you, not against you. He needs to stop lashing back at you, and realize you are trying to get through this. You are right for trying to work things out with him, especially for the sake of your daughter. I don't know how you are doing it, but I admire you for sticking around and giving it your best even though you have been the victim. Please feel free to vent here as much as you want. We all care for you so much. Also, if you ever want to email me for whatever reason, my email is moonhour 79 @ bellsouth .net (minus spaces) I love ya girl
Your post makes me want to cry. I have been there and done that. I took him back and tried to make it work. I had to. I had to know that I had exhausted all means. I went through hell for my children's sake. uuuugh. Long story and a lot of women here know it. You can't get over it until you are ready to get over it. He's been gone for three years (mine) and it still hurts like hell. A little less every day, and I am a million miles away from where I started, but it still hurts. We did the counseling, the church/pastor thing, I bought the dr. Phil books, I had the dreams. If you want to discuss this with someone who has been in your shoes you are more than welcome to email me. Mine was former military-Marines.
I'm sorry for you. I wouldn't wish this on any woman. Be strong and don't ever deny yourself what you need to feel.
oh honey i dont know what to say but i will keep you & your family in my prayers that you can make it through all this !
you are soo strong for not running & staying to work this out !
Thank you ALL once again. I AM working very hard at this because I do remember the relationship DH and I had before I found this out. Thats what i'm striving to get again. Now that all is said and done, it is in the past. Now I just have to get myself to rememeber that everytime a bad thought enters my mind.
I'm sure some of you have read the posts on how much I compliment my Dh because he IS romantic, because he gives me time to myself, he gives me the option to stay at home with Kaitlyn, he makes sure the "spark" is always there, we have heart to heart talks quite frequently. And much more....
Its just this particular subject hes being hard headed about (or immature as Amy put is why is pretty much right). The sad thing is that the subject he chooses to ignore is the one that will ultimately make us or break us. I've tried to tell Dh this but he just says "If you cant trust me then why are you with me?" Maybe he needs to read a book on how long, if ever, it takes to earn that complete trust back.
The reason I stay so strong through this: Kaitlyn! If for some reason we could never work this out (which I hope we DO!) i'd want to tell Kaitlyn I gave it all I had not to tear the family apart. I want her to know i've tried my hardest. Yes there are other big reasons such as my love for DH but that one is what keeps me from breaking down.
Melissa, You need to take time. And you need to realize that when he snaps at you it is probably more his frustration over what he has done more so than you did. I think everyone is guilty of this. If we can't fix or take it back we don't want to talk about it. We know what we have done and rehashing it won't make it go away. And if you are going to blame me I am going to find away to point it back at you. We aren't taught to argue/fight fairly. We aren't taught to express or wants and needs. We aren't taught to speak our minds. We aren't taught to truly listen. We go for the throat (insults, shifting blame) if we think the other person is backing us into a corner. We assume they will read or minds and know are deepest needs with out even saying a word and if they don't we are heart broken. We keep back things because we are afraid of not getting the answers we want and being rejected. And we hear only half of what is said and then we start figuring out a come back before they even have the full sentence out. Communication on a hot topic is painful and most people avoid it. You are grasping in the dark (Why's?, How could you?, make it all go away.) and he is running away (I don't know., I can't fix it., Please stop bringing it up). You have to come to terms with this Melissa. You have to find away to get past (not forget) this. You can't keep playing this over and over in your head. It won't make it go away and it won't change what has happened. You need to find away to go on from here. You and DH are so young. And Melissa, we all have baggage in out marriages. Some men/ women have cheated. Others lie. Others waste money. Others drink. And the list goes on. No one is the perfect spouse. We all fall short and make mistakes. It is what we do after the situation that counts.
Melissa, 4 months is really not long at all to deal with and work through such a situation. You are really just now coming to grips with what really happened. I would echo the suggestions that others gave of going back to counseling...first, alone, and then ultimately as a couple. You can get through this and with a strong, solid marriage intact.
I guarantee that it is not and will never be "erased from his mind." Your hurt and frustration probably cause him to lash back out at you because he feels guilty and sad at the pain that he caused you (and ultimately himself) and he realizes that the consequences are long and severe. You still need to feel comfortable to say what you are thinking and feeling too though. Counseling is a wonderful *safe* place for that. You can first get your feelings out and make sense of them and then the two of you can have a guided dialogue with each other in the presence of a counselor to resolve the other stuff.
My dad had an affair when I was in highschool and college and it devastated me. I went to counseling to deal with the effects that my dad's infidelity had on me as a *daddy's girl* and it was a very positive experience. My parents worked through it and in October they will celebrate their 43rd wedding anniversary...so happy endings are possible!
I will pray for you and your husband. In particular, prayers that he will realize that it will take some tears, anger, and pain to hash this all out and come to a place of healing, but that he will be willing to be vulnerable and take that risk with you. If you don't talk about it and deal with it it will just fester under the surface.
I also have 2 book suggestions:
"How to Save Your Marriage by Yourself" by Dr. Ed Wheat (I haven't read this one, but read another book of his as part of our premarital counseling and it had a few chapters from this book in it)
"A Celebration of Sex" by Dr. Douglas Rosenau-- I wrote about this book before. It is wonderful!! It has exercises and *homework* to help you be vulnerable and trust each other sexually and has a special section on the "sexual emergency room" which includes chapters of recovering from extramarital affairs and sexual addictions. I really think it would be beneficial for both of you to read.
(((Melissa))) Hang in there! We're pulling for you.
Thank you Pam for the book recommendations.
And Thanks again ladies.
Today is a good day and i'm making today the beginning of the end of this mental torture. I'm talking to DH re: my personal counseling, I will get that started and I WILL get over this. If I think of bad things I will just think in my head all the good DH has done for me and DD.
One of my ways of letting go is letting go of this post as well. I came here and you girls helped me tremendously but if I wake up everyday reading this post i'm only starting my day off with bad thoughts. All of you women on here are truly one in a million. I've never had a group of online friends who I have trusted with such personal information and who have only supported me through this.
So, big (((((HUGS))))) to ALL of you!
Melissa, I was at a graduation party today and the former pastor of my church who is part of a counseling group was there. I asked, and he told me there is an organization, American
Association of Pastoral Counselors http://www.aapc.org
This is a nationwide organization. All people on their list are highly qualified counselors and are people with religious connections and associations. They must take additional training to be part of this organization, and there is a great deal of oversight. I don't know if anyone on their list is in your area, but I think it is worth checking out if you decide to seek counseling. One of the important things about counselors in this organization is that faith is an important part of their lives and they recognize its importance in the lives of those they counsel.
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