Does anyone know anything about this? By know, I mean do you know someone who has had this treatment? Do you have medical knowledge about it?

I know most of the horror stories and some of the basic clinical stuff, but not much.

It is important because my son Scott has again admitted himself to the psychiatric unit. He and his psychiatrist are agreed that the meds and weekly therapy are not working. His psychiatrist is suggesting he consider ECT, and Scott is considering it. It scares the bejezus out of me, but I don't know anything.

I am waiting for a friend to return to town Thursday. He is a clinical psychiatrist who headed the psych unit at one of our major hospitals here, now in private practice. I want to ask him about it. I am also going to consult a friend who was a psychiatric nurse at Friends Hospital, a major psychiatric hospital in Philadelphia which does ECT. But I need all the knowledgeable information anyone can provide.

We will get at least a second opinion (beyond my friend) and maybe a third. So nothing is happening tomorrow. But I need all the information I can get, soon.

By Karen~moderator on Monday, May 3, 2004 - 10:41 pm:

{{{{{({{Ginny}}}}}))) You and Scott have my prayers. I had an aunt who underwent this type of treatment, but it was 40 years ago, so obviously great strides have been made since then. I don't really know anything about it, so I can't be of any help to you. But if you need someone, I'm here for you.

By Bobbie on Monday, May 3, 2004 - 10:47 pm:

Oh Man, Ginny..... Big hugs.... Rob's insurance all but insisted that he have ECT done during his last hospital stay. I was dead set against it. I mean having a fit crying that I wasn't going to sit back or sign anything to allow them to do that to Rob. His Dr luckily sided with me. I have seen the results of ECT and they can be pretty bad. Living zombies. It can kill of parts of the brain. It doesn't just cure mental illness in some cases. Please.... You need to have your friend explain to you what can happen. You need to make sure Scott understands what can happen. And there are so many medications out there, there has to be something else that will work. Maybe Scott isn't clear on all his symptoms with his DR and he isn't getting the right types of medication. It took Rob 8 years to admit to his DR that he heard voices. That alone changed his diagnosis and the type of medication dramaticly. And for the first time in 10 years my husband smiles because he feels it not because he is making himself smile for the rest of the world.... This is breaking my heart Ginny. I am so sorry you are going through this and that Scott has to suffer like this...... Big hugs to you both and please ask any questions you might have if I don't know it I will find it out... And I am praying that Scott gets the best treatment for him, whatever that might be....

By Jewlz on Monday, May 3, 2004 - 10:49 pm:

http://www.mcmanweb.com/article-14.htm

u both are in my prayers ... here is a article i just found. it seems to talk in reg english and not in medical terms ... i remember my cuzin having this done as a child sorry but that was many years ago ... i hope all goes well for u and ur family... huggggs

By Bobbie on Monday, May 3, 2004 - 11:29 pm:

Personal stories

Mental Health .org

By Bobbie on Monday, May 3, 2004 - 11:53 pm:

ECT is a short-term solution to a long-term problem.

http://www.ect.org/resources/jama.html

Says that the relapse with in the first six months is probable at 50 precent or better.

ECT Cause brain damage?

http://www.cchr.org/ect/eng/page09a.htm

Scott needs to know all the facts.. Not just what a DR that doesn't have to live with the results thinks (not your refering to your friend's, I am sure they will suggest the best treatment)

By Bea on Monday, May 3, 2004 - 11:56 pm:

By Kernkate on Monday, May 3, 2004 - 11:59 pm:

{{{Ginny}}} Don't have any advice on this subject but I hope everything goes ok for your DS. Thoughts and prayers are with all of you.

By Mommyathome on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 12:17 am:

((((((Ginny))))))))
I don't know anyone who has gone through this, but I hope you find the answers that you need.

By Emily7 on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 12:34 am:

I also know nothing on this subject, but just wanted to let you know your family will be in my thoughts.

By Tink on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 01:13 am:

Just echoing everyone else, but I wanted to add my prayers and hugs to everyone else's.

By Trina on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 06:50 am:

More (((HUGS))) and prayers!

By Fionadeassis on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 07:34 am:

{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}
and more.......
{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I have several family members dealing with mental illness in several ways (drugs...alchohol.....denial......) and it is heartbreaking!! My dad just suddenly went off his meds and is "off the wall" so to speak....

Good Luck with your son.....I hope he finds what he needs.......

(has he ever considered spiritual healing-such as Reiki? I do Reiki and find it can really be helpful for all sorts of problems-besides being totally safe and not too expensive...)

fiona

By Feona on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 07:35 am:

I read recently in a womens magazine they really do low voltage now and it is very safe. Not like the old days.

I really don't know anything about it though...

By Texannie on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 08:30 am:

All I can offer is more hugs and support too!!

By Dana on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 08:56 am:

Prayers and thoughts for you and your son. Many e-hugs to you.

By Sue3 on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 09:18 am:

Ginny,
My prayers and thoughts will be with you and scott.
Best of luck finding information,I hope Your friend can help you Thursday

By Amecmom on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 09:43 am:

Ditto Ginny,
Hugs and prayers. I know this not really the kind of info you're looking for, but one of the science channels did a documentary on ECT. The patient was a young mother who had battled depression and other mental illness all her life. The ECT worked for her when nothing else did. The show was very informative and they showed all aspects of the procedure. They did say that this treatment has come a long way from its beginnings. It was on TLC or Discovery.
You're going about this the right way, trying to make a very informed decision. I think Bobbie has a good idea though, maybe Scott's docs can explore other medication options?
Hopes and prayers,
Ame

By Robyn on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 10:19 am:

Sending you e-hugs!

By Truestori on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 10:41 am:

Ginny,

So many e~hugs coming in your direction....

I don't personally have experience with this but growing up my bestfriends mom had this procedure done. I just remember her allowing anything to happen without any reaction. Like mentioned above she lived like a zombie for many years. She still isn't all there, and the depression never ceased. She has been admitted to the psych ward many times after the procedure so in her case I'm not sure that it helped. I hope that you find the research that you need to ease your mind. This must be such a tough thing to go through.

By Colette on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 01:23 pm:

{{{Ginny & Scott}}} Prayers for both of you.

By Debbie on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 01:44 pm:

Ginny, I have no experience with this, but I wanted to let you know that you and Scott will be in my thoughts and prayers. I hope that you get all the answers you are looking for, so that Scott can make an informed decision.

By Yjja123 on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 01:48 pm:

No advice to offer but wanted you and your son to know that you are in my thoughts and prayers!

By Familyman on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 05:27 pm:

My dad has had ECT and in his case it saved his life.
Yes it's scary, no they still don't really know how it works. There sure can be some bad side effects and they never know what they will be. The thing most of you have to remember is that this is a treatment that is often given to people that are at high risk of dying from their depression, without this suicide is a very real risk.
With my dad he had hit the bottom and I dont' think anybody though he wasn't going to kill himself eventually. It was a sure thing, just a matter of time. ECT didn't cure his depression, but it did get him better enough that conventional drugs and therapy worked. He was better for a while and then lapsed into drug and alcohol abuse for a while before cleaning up and being reasonably healthy for the last 2-3 years. He might re-lapse again, it's always a concern for anybody who has had a severe bout of depression whatever the treatment.
I have a sister who died from her depression, she had very poor treatment and she killed herself.
I have a father for whom ECT helped bring him back. A radical treatment to be sure, but he's here and my kids get to know their grandpa.
I also have a brother that we're happy ever day he doesn't try to kill himself. He's tried 3 times and it's only been through dumb luck two of those times that he was saved. For him ECT hasn't been a real option because of some seisure problems he's had. Do I wish they could try ECT to make him better? I wish for anything to make him better so he can live and work and not die.
If ECT is a reasonable alternative to death, then think about it. Don't just dismiss it because you're scared of it.
I'm not somebody talking about what I've read here, I'm talking about what I've lived. E-mail me if you'd like.

By Ginny~moderator on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 06:31 pm:

Thanks, Seth. I've also done some research, and found a booklet on the internet from the National INstitutes of Health, a "Consensus Development Conference Statement" from 1985, and "The Harvard Medical School Guide to suicide Assessment and Intervention", 1999, which has chapters on depression and ECT. Both of these texts say that ECT, when used for the right diagnoses and properly administered, has mostly very positive effects and no long term negative effects so far. I will be doing more learning when my friend gets back in town Thursday. And, one of the partners in the firm, whose mother is an anesthesiologist, says she has always spoken very positively of the effects and, from his own research as an attorney who does med mal, he believes it can be a very positive thing.

Your father's experience is very helpful to me. Scott has been on meds and in therapy, and this is his third hospitalization in about 2 to 2-1/2 years, following on the heels of a hospitalization in December. He is very frightened of getting out of control and harming himself or those around him, and I think he sees ECT as a last chance to gain control of sanity or, as he describes it, his "madness".

I am frightened, more than a bit at a loss because the mental health system is very baffling and the new HIPAA rules truly don't help. But I have lots of support, both here and in person.

Thank you all for your prayers and hugs. It helps - A LOT!

By Gammiejoan on Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - 10:36 pm:

Ginny, I worked in a mental hospital for thirty years until 1999. There was a long period of time during which ECT was very widely used; but by the time I left employment there, it was not used at all at that particular hospital. On average of once or twice a year we would transfer a patient to another hospital where ECT was still done. The use of ECT was limited to those patients for whom absolutely every other conceivable treatment had been tried without success and whose depression was so severe that they were in extreme danger of dying from either suicide or as a result of not taking adequate nutrition. By the late 90's most psychiatrists with whom I worked seriously questioned the benefits derived from ECT and in fact felt that in most cases it had done more harm than good. Of course the method of doing ECT had improved greatly from the early days, and we weren't seeing all the negative consequences that we had seen years before. Good luck to you and your son in getting all the information you need in order to make the right decision regarding his treatment. I'll be praying for the two of you.

By Bea on Wednesday, May 5, 2004 - 01:26 am:

Ginny, I'm sending an article that I think will give you some important information. Watch your email.

By Ginny~moderator on Wednesday, May 5, 2004 - 10:26 pm:

Thank you all for the information you have provided. Scott has made his decision and will begin ECT treatment tomorrow. I have done a lot of reading and have talked with some people, including a former mental hospital nurse. I wish it weren't happening, but I also understand why Scott believes it is his last chance to get some control over his mind and life. He has been on meds for 8 to 10 years, and has been skating on the edge mentally/emotionally all through the meds. Even the lithium, while it takes the edge off his anger, has not been able to help him feel he has any control over himself. I believe that if he does not feel he has some control over his mental state he will commit suicide, if not overtly by putting himself in some situation where he will be killed.

I am frightened, very very tired, and feeling very helpless - not a feeling I am accustomed to. I am very grateful for all the support I am getting here and in other places. Your prayers and hugs and caring mean a lot.

By Melanie on Wednesday, May 5, 2004 - 10:39 pm:

(((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))

Many prayers coming to both of you. We are here for you.

By Bobbie on Wednesday, May 5, 2004 - 11:04 pm:

Ginny, I am sorry that you are going through this. I so feel for you..... I hope he understands what he is doing and that he also can deal with the out come. I will be thinking of you tomorrow and praying for him. It is so sad that it has to come to something like this but I can see his point. Being married to a man going through the very same thing I can completely understand, although it still breaks my heart that people go through these things. Best wishes to you both. Please keep us posted.

By Texannie on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 09:11 am:

I hope it goes well and gives him the peace he needs. Thinking of you too!

By Cat on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 09:16 am:

{{{{{Ginny and Scott}}}}} Many thoughts and prayers for your whole family. These treatments have come a long way. Post and update when you can.

By Debbie on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 11:53 am:

{{{{Ginny}}}} I will be thinking of you and Scott today. I will be praying that things go well with his treatment. Try and take care of yourself and keep us posted.

By Gammiejoan on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 08:56 pm:

Ginny, please keep us posted. I am praying that Scott gets the very best results from the ECT.

By Amecmom on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 09:46 pm:

Hugs and prayers
Ame

By Dana on Thursday, May 6, 2004 - 11:02 pm:

Hugs and prayers for you both.

By Ginny~moderator on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 06:15 pm:

Scott is being discharged tomorrow. They have opted against the ECT and are trying a new, different combination of medications. I don't know how I feel, except very, very tired and very uninformed. I am going to have a drink - my first in 10 days, and go to bed early.

Thank you, my friends, for being "there"(here).

By Karen~moderator on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 06:16 pm:

Enjoy your scotch, Ginny. I hope the new meds work for Scott. {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}} to you both.

By Texannie on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 06:21 pm:

My heart just breaks for you guys! Take care of yourself too.

By Bea on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 06:59 pm:

Ginny, please read the information I sent. It really does have so many answers to therapy questions you might have.

By Bobbie on Friday, May 7, 2004 - 09:49 pm:

Praying that the new meds help... Big hugs Ginny... It is so hard being on the outside trying to deal with things like this... You feel so out of the loop and helpless. Take care of yourself.