Therapy or Self - Help
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Therapy or Self - Help
It was suggested that we bring this up on this thread. My personal experience is that a mixture of therapy, counselling, medication, research, local support systems, and motivational training are all ways that can help someone clear the hurdles of dysfunction in their psyches and lives. I personally have used all of the above in my day-to-day struggles with clinical depression. Which ones I use, and when I seek that aid, depends on how I'm coping, and what situational episodes are adding to my struggle. My only caution is using a general practice doctor to prescribe psychotropic medications. They normally do not do the follow-up monitoring that I firmly believe is so important. Without proper and close monitoring, these medications are sometimes dangerous.
I think it really depends on the problem as to weather you can do self help or need to seak a therapist. I certainly think that some problems can be dealt with successfuly with self help, but some others really need professional help. I also think what kind of person you are plays into it.
I've been through a couple years of therapy, and definitely learned things abotu myself, and coping skills. I've also benefitted greatly from advice from people who have BTDT, research on helping myself, and most recently, medication. I don't feel therapy would be as beneficial to me now as it was in the past, it would actually be more of a stressor than anything. However, medication didn't help me before, I needed to make changes and the therapist helped me see that. Make any sense? I guess I agree with Vicki, but I do think that a therapist is a great way to start, a good therapist gives you tools to help yourself.
Bea, I also get my anti-depressants from a general practice doctor, but they are doing follow ups, and I actually feel he has more interest in me as a whole than a psych ever did. Of course, that's just MY experience.
Ditto Vicki. I think A LOT depends on "who" you are, what kind of person you are. Where one person with might really need therapy, another person with the same problems may pull through with self-help alone.
Ditto Vicki and Deanna.
KYM this post is not directed specifically to you, but I do quote you in it, so I wanted to alert you.
My second post in the initial thread was obviously in response to Kym's post. What bothered me most in her post was her comment: I am against therapy in almost any scenario, unless you are looking to medicate or have mental illness.
I think that counseling - whether one calls it therapy or counseling - is helpful in a lot of situations where an individual or marriage is undergoing stress, or, as with Katherine, feeling guilty and unhappy about a decision and needing to work that through. None of these are situations requiring medication (usually), nor are they indicative of mental health problems. But a lot of people - me among them - need the help of someone who is outside the situation to be able to get a clearer vision of what the problem is, what the individual feels in response to the problem, and what the individual REALLY wants to do. Most of us have a lot of internal programs telling us what we SHOULD feel or do, and it is often very difficult to step back and figure out what we actually feel and actually want to do - and how to feel good about that even if what we want is counter to our programs. That's where counseling comes into play. I believe that having that trained, outside viewpoint and sounding board is often extremely helpful.
And I think there is a big difference between short-term, specific issue counseling and "therapy". I've been in both, and certainly for me there was a big difference. I also think it is unhelpful to use the term therapy for situations like Katherine's. "Therapy" implies a mental illness or maybe a mental weakness. To my ear and mind, counseling does not carry either of those implications.
As for medications - neither a counselor (who usually has a degree in social work with a counseling specializaton) nor a psychologist (who has taken graduate training in psychology) can prescribe medications. They might communicate with the client's primary care physician and discuss the possibility of a medication, but only a psychiatrist can prescribe medications because only psychiatrists are MDs, with an additional degree in psychiatry/psychology.
I've been thinking about this today, and I think that for me, at least, a therapist was like a best girlfriend, but with the rules and requirements of the patient confidentiality. I don't mean that we were buddies, but that she was a person who I could vent my thoughts to, and would offer up questions or perspectives that I might not have thought of, much like a confidant might do. I think a good therapist nudges you toward the realizations and answers you need, rather than telling you "XYZ will fix your problem." Often an outsider can help you accept things you normally deny or ignore.
I have so much I can say on this post but I will be back tomorrow night... This is an area I have way to much knowledge of... Want to give it my full attention..
I had a friend whose culture went against therapy. She was rigid about it. She always said oh talk to a friend about your problems like a friend would want to listen to hours and hours of pain and complaining.
So anyway, never say never. Anytime I say I would never do something ... there I go doing it.
She was in therapy after her boyfriend of 13 years broke up with her after she was married to him for a year. She went from a size 10 to a size 0 so it was good she got therapy else she would have disappeared.
Like I said before I was in therapy on an off from ages 15-22 or so. I also went back in therapy at age 32 or so for a few months.
I think they all three have their usefulness. My dd had a horrible time two years ago, we had several deaths, she started failing school, she couldn't get homework done, etc. We had donte everything and honestly just couldn't figure out which probleme started where, and what to do. We put her in counseling and it was THE ONE BEST thing I have ever done in parenting. I truely feel like this lady saved my dd's life when I couldn't help her. Her knowledge was able to sort through all the issues, and individually work on each one. What did my dd do doing therapy? Mostly play games, cards, dice games, etc. And they chatted, but the counselor gave me hints and ideas and clues to watch for. I had a 9 year odl daughter who quit eating and was wishing she would die. Now she is excelling through middle school and thinks she is a princess. All of my friends comment just how amazing the change in her is. We also did meds (for add) for a little bit of time, it was just too much all at once for her to function.
As for me, I think counseling would probably help me at times, but it is hard to justify the $$ and the time. I already run around like crazy and if I get an hour for just me, I don't think that is what i want to do. BUT i also really struggle. I have done depression meds, but I don't like how they make me feel, I am not as down, but it effects me in many other ways. I try to get more exercise and make sure i have something in my life that lifts me up. this can be Church, or a volunteer position that I excell in.
Anyway, my point is, therapy helps, they all help, but there is a time and a place for each of them. Some people will respond better to one or another. I don't understand "not beleiveing" in therapy? It may not be for you right now, but it is an amazing tool if you are in that place.
Depends on the person and the situation. I, myself, like to use self-help measures and they seem to work. But i've never had anything traumatic enough or too much for me to handle to where I would have to resort to a therapist or medications. I definitely don't look different at those who do. We all cope different ways and should be glad there is more than one way for us to get help fixing our problem.
Ditto Boxzgrl. Well said.
The types of help out there are only as good as the person giving the help. You can buy bad self help books. You can see a bad therapist/counselor. You can have a bad psychiatrist. For that matter you can have a bad primary care physician. Unfortunately many people put way to much stock in people that have degree's. They assume they are smart and know what they are doing.
The thing is, especially in the case of counselors and therapist, most people specialize and to make sure they are making the good money they will see people they are not qualified to help. Which leaves the patient frustrated and leaves them thinking there is no help for them or that therapist are quacks.
Just as Ginny said, often a PCP will give out medication not knowing the long term effects/side effects. They do not do the proper blood screenings or follow ups with the medication. The patients not knowing there has to be follow up do not find out they needed follow up until they are having reaction issues complications. Medications are handed out way to frequently in situations that could be dealt with in counseling or with a short term medication.
Many people are over medicated. They take X pill to deal with depression and five others to counter the effects of that X pill. There is a local doctor here that has patients that are more or less walking zombies. When DH has had to be hospitalized you can tell the differences between the patients of his doctor and the patients of the other doctor. There is a local child psychiatrist that has most of his patients diagnosed as ADHD. There are so many other actual mental illnesses/behavior issues that present as ADHD but the medications for ADHD cause further complications in children that suffer from a much (uummm) stronger mental illness.
I have major issues key holing a child that doesn't actually give input to the doctor. There are adults that can not clearly state what their symptoms are and we know that a child can't articulate their issues in a general situation for get one that the child is under the "looking glass". Many emotionally distressed children end up being looked at as BAD children or children with BAD parents. The stereo types of mental/emotional illness cause people not to seek out help and the people suffer because of it.
Self help books can cause further emotional distress in some people. They don't understand that those books are not written for every body. To one person a Godsend to another an example of how messed up they really are. Some of the people that write those books do it with out actual knowledge of what they write.. Just like the people that write books about raising children that do not have children. People that write about mental illness that have never lived with or knew someone that suffered from it. Just like in the case of Tom Cruise there is always someone that says "JUST suck it up". I have a brother in law that thought that mental illness is a cop out, until he started working as a prison guard and now he knows how real it is. Until then he thought they should just get over themselves. So until he lived it he had no clue... Which unfortunately many self help books are written by people just like him.. People that think it is a simple answer for all your ills........ When often a chemical imbalance for example can only be cured with medication thus NO self help book will help.
Some times there is no simple answer.. Some times it takes a whole bunch of things working together to get a handle on your situation. A good PCP, who realizes your issues are more than he can handle. A good psychiatrist that truly listens and makes an educated decision to medicate you only if you need to be and only to the level to take the edge off. Your PCP and your psychiatrist working together to make sure you are not being effected physically by the medications and understanding the medications you are on and their effects. A good therapist/counselor that works at helping you pull out the underlying issues and doesn't just focus on the surface issues that you know are there. Most marital issues stem from childhood, not the actual marriage. It isn't the fact that you are sad that is the issues, it is the fact that you haven't been given the skills to cope that is. And well researched and well written self help books. Because no matter what level of help you use you have to ultimately help yourself. And if any of these things fail or you feel they are falling short than it is time to find someone else to help you get to where you want to be. Don't settle for a doctor that doesn't listen or one that wants to tell you what is wrong with you with out taking the time to get to know your situation. Don't read a book and take it as gospel. Work with them all together and heal yourself with the avenues that are out there to do so.
I think there is a difference between a person who is suffering from an long term issue and someone that is dealing with a short term issues. Long term would be actual emotional/mental illness. Short term would be divorce, loss of a loved one, major changes in life that hit you hard but in time and with help will balance themselves back out. I think both situations should be dealt with differently. I also thing that some people are in denial about the actual effects their childhood's and lives have on their emotional health.
I think many feel hopeless to have change and that the resolve to live the way they do with out looking into the avenues that can help them. I think many, because of stereo typing thing , people assume all psychiatrist, therapist and counselors are all quacks and won't even look at it as a way to get help through the dark times. I think most people do not like to admit that they are weak and that there is an issue. It comes back on all aspects of their lives and they think that it is normal. The mom (dad's do too) that looses it on her children because her job is out of control or her marriage is bad. The dad that drinks (mom's do too) and spends all his time away from home because it is easier than having to work on fixing the issues that make him not want to be there in the first place. The woman (men too) whose life feels out of control and no longer about her/him but everything around her. The man (woman) that feels like a pay check but doesn't know how to express that with out it breaking into world war three...... The couple that won't talk about the difficult subjects and waits until the marriage feels dead to try to get help and doesn't understand when things can't be saved. All these and more can be treated with early intervention but we have issues as I said facing the problems... We also have issues with placing value on ourselves. Many are trained from childhood that everyone else's feelings, thoughts, wants are of more importance than their own. On the other hand some are taught that they hold more value than anyone else. (we all know the person that puts themselves way above everyone else in the family) Both cases cause emotional distress but are seldom dealt with until things are way out of hand.
I guess after this book I am saying, many people would do good in finding out who they really are and really need to feel whole. Any avenue that can get you to that point is a good thing.. For some it just needs for them to be more proactive in their own lives and in others, they need to be trained how to be proactive. We are only as healthy as we are taught to be in most cases. And in a case of a family history of emotional/mental illness there needs to be evaluations done because often what we see as okay truly isn't okay.. But because we are raised with behaviors we assume the behaviors are normal and that the feelings we have are normal. The daughter/son that grew up in the home of an alcoholic mother/father will often become an alcoholic or they won't be come an alcoholic but a shopaholic or something worse. They can't link the two together. The child of a parent that cheats will carry fear deep in them of being cheated on or abandoned. They don't realize where it stems from or don't want to blame the parents because of their fears so they act out towards their spouse (often fighting) instead of just telling them about the fears. A lot of our issues faced are easily dealt with but we shove them down because of our lack of self worth and we pretend we are fine until we loose it. Then we justify it away by blaming someone else (generally our spouse, job, family) anything not to seem weak or out of control of our own thoughts. We as a society need to reevaluate the worth's of life and the goals we set for ourselves and we need to stop "shoving" things down inside of us. We also need to recognize the values of others and make sure that we show them their worth (especially in the case of OUR children and when I say OUR I mean all children not just the ones you bore). Anyway that you take a positive step towards helping yourself is a positive thing and nothing holds more value over another. A person that can read a book and feel all better is lucky but not better than a person that has to set up a support system to see them through. As Fenoa said you should never say never and do what you have to do to help yourself become proactive instead of reactive.
I'll just tell you of my second-hand experience with depression.
I was friends for about 4 years with a woman who lives across the street from us and who has depression, though you'd never know it upon first meeting her. She was very personable, polite, and almost jolly. But it was all just a good front.
Her story as she told it to me was this. In 1991, when her first two children were 4 and 2, her mom, sister, and niece were all killed together in a car accident, and then the following year her dad died of a heart attack. When her first two kids had been born, her mom had come to stay with her for about a month at a time to help her with the newborn chores. Then she had a baby girl in 1992. She was at a loss as to how to deal with two toddlers and a newborn all by herself, and she began to experience panic and anxiety attacks. A couple of years had gone by before a church member came to her and told her that she may be suffering from depression. She went to her family doctor and he prescribed some anti-depressants in addition to the 2400 mg of Ibuprofen she was taking per day for pain in her knees. She never went to a therapist. The reason (or excuse) as she told me was that her dh's insurance only paid for one therapy session per month.
So, she continued to suffer, having good days, and bad days. She ate constantly and then slept. She told me that she would eat "just because it was there" and she would sleep to escape reality. Consequently, her weight went up to a debilitating 565 pounds. She was unable to walk and had incontinence and sleep apnea. She also suffered from degenerative arthritis in her knees, which she says she would have had even if she hadn't gained all that weight. But then I saw a picture of her when she was first married, and she was still quite a hefty gal at about 350 pounds. Nonetheless, knee replacement was out of the question due to her weight.
She finally got a motorized cart to get around in. They obtained a full-size van through a charity and had an electric lift installed inside the rear so that the cart could be lifted into the van and transported. Her dh referred to the cart as her "legs." One day when he showed up at church without her, he was asked where she was, and his reply was, "Her legs are broken." (The cart was in need of repair.) She uses her depression as a crutch (like an alcoholic uses booze) and she refers to her weight as a "handicap" often playing on people's sympathies, including mine. The first day I had met her was when she and her daughter came to my door peddling candy bars they had purchased at Sam's Club and were selling at a profit "to raise funds for the cart."
In the spring of 2003, they had been reported to CPS with a bogus complaint. She called me and asked me to come over for moral support. The CPS worker simply told them to clean up the house. So we set to work every night for almost a week. Her dh has been working 2 jobs for the past 10 years since she quit her job when their dd was almost 4. During the day when the kids are at school and her dh is at work she does absolutely nothing but sleep. (She used to call me around 3 PM when she woke up.) The dishes were not only piled on the stove, in the sink, on the table, and on the counters, but also on the floor and in a round plastic tub (the kind with the rope handles.) In the kids' rooms, there was no sight of the floor because it was covered with inches of dirty clothes (the dressers and closets were empty.) The boys' bunk bed had been broken, as were both of their dressers. They had 2 cats and a dog, and it was common to find dog poop in the kids' rooms and cat pee in their master bedroom.
We spent most of our time getting to know eachother on the phone, and I had never been in their house until I had known her about 3 months. But by that time, I had come to regard her as a friend in spite of the chaos she and her family lived in.
She invited me to their church after 9/11, and I went and agreed to attend Bible Study with the minister. I rode to church with them occasionally. Since they were my ride, I was at their mercy after church was over, and I had to wait around while they raided the church's food pantry every Wednesday night after everyone had left and we were the only ones there. Then, since it was so late and the kids were tired, we got to listen to their disrespectful bickering between the parents and the kids all the way home. Ds, who was about 4 at the time, also became quite cranky by the time we got home, so we eventually quit going with them.
They had been so irresponsible with their finances that the church treasurer and an elder had agreed to counsel them. They took away their checkbook and debit cards, and each Sunday after services they sat down and sorted out the bills and accounts. She got $100 for groceries and another $50 for gas, and each week they put money in their savings and made out the checks for the bills. Lo and Behold, they found that her dh really was making enough money so that they could make ends meet! After an entire year, they gradually took back responsibility for their finances, and within another year, were right back to being broke and begging for handouts.
The more I got to know her, the more comfortable she was showing her true conduct even when I was around. Her mood swings were horrible. I actually witnessed her yelling at her kids and telling them that she wished she could just kill then all and be done with it. Sometimes when she was overwhelmed, if she didn't lash out then she would also simply shut down and not do anything or talk to anyone.
It also got to the point that everytime she called, she asked if she could borrow something. It went from the cup of milk or couple of eggs to our charcoal grill, shovels, rakes, and lawn mower, and then to our cars. At first, I was glad to help because they had done things for me. I was operating under the motto "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." My dh on the other hand, said, "God helps those who help themselves." Her motto was "Why buy it if I can borrow it?" Eventually I saw my dh's point- it had gotten way out of balance. We were doing more for them than they had ever done for us.
Finally in the fall of 2003 her oldest son was caught doing something morally reprehensible. The church elders tried to get them to understand the severity of the offense, but she was in denial. She rushed to his defense and protected him from the evil church elders. Eventually she quit attending with him altogether, and she refused to allow him to be interviewed by a police detective. I told her that she needed to stop protecting him and make him face his consequences, or he would never learn from them. She said, "Lisa, I will always protect my son!" To which I replied, "Well then, I can't be friends with you anymore." And she hung up.
We still live across the street from them, and to be honest, they are one of the main reasons why I want to move. It is so difficult to see the decay in their lives, even from the outside. The middle son and the daughter are grossly obese. There was a junk car in the driveway next to a pile of brush until I filed a complaint with the city. (I am trying to sell a house, after all.) The gutters hang down from the edges of the roof, and the Christmas lights are dangling from the remaining gutters.
I know how she copes with life (or doesn't, depending on how you look at it) and I have seen how her oldest son has acted out as a result of learning by the example his mother has set for him. One thing I have learned is that depression is a very self-centered condition. The only person who matters is herself. If anyone else has needs, she is simply not equipped to handle them, so they are on their own. The kids have fended for themselves since they were very young, as has her dh (she told me that she doesn't care about his needs, especially sex, which she couldn't care less if she ever had again.) She told me she's just too weak to face life and to change herself. She won't face emotions or pain, be it her pain or someone else's pain. She didn't even cry on 9/11.
To think, if she had only gotten into therapy, there is a good possibility that none of the above might have ever happened.
Don't forget about self help groups that are free like
AA
or
Overeatter Anonymous
or
Drug Anonymous
or
sex anonymous
or
Alanon
or
alateen
They probably help more people than the therapist or the drug makers.
As for me, I think counseling would probably help me at times, but it is hard to justify the $$ and the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Is that one of those mom traps where it's hard to justify the $$ and time being spent on yourself? Instead of the kids or your husband? If a child of yours was suffering and needed the counselling would you find it hard to justify?
That's my quote..and what I was trying to say (and thougth that I did say). If I am going to spend money on myself (and I do often), going to counseling is hard to pick, when I could get a pedicure or buy a new outfit. I do have to decide which is more important for me. If it was one of the kids, then we would go without something else. I have done counseling for me and for my dd and when it was needed, we made it work. But when I am deciding what is needed the money does come in to play, just like with any other area of my life.
Kaye, I understand what you are saying, that you don't feel that you are in a serious enough state of depression to warrant therapy. I agree- if depression isn't really interfering with your ability to function in day-to-day life, then you may just be in a bit of a slump, which happens to all of us at one time or another.
Perhaps that is the key- ability to function. As a wife and/or mother, or as an employee. When you feel like you just can't go on, maybe that is the time to seek help.
My former friend was in that place a decade ago. She never got therapy b/c her dh's insurance only paid for one session per month. Well, even if it meant having to pay for it herself, I can pretty much guarantee it would have been worth every penny considering everything she has put her family through for practically the entire time she has been a mother.
Cocoabutter...I agree with your last paragraph. If someone is like your friend in such a bad state that it's affecting her family, then the $$$ shouldn't matter..BUT, I've not been in that position I guess. I agree that we all get in a slump and sometimes it's from things like hormonal birth control or the way we eat, or another medical condition that we don't even know about or realize.
Ditto Kaye and Cocoa - it's like anything else, you have to weigh it with family, $, & seriousness. I'm sure there are TONS of people who go untreated (that should be treated) because of $ alone. It IS expensive (from what I hear)and unfortunately some things just HAVE to be paid for first (cars, mortgage, food, gas) and sometimes what's left just won't cover therapy.
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