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Banning Books

Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Banning Books
By Sunny on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 09:35 am:

List of Challenged Books thru 1999

This week is Banned Book Week. The purpose of this week is encourage everyone to read a challenged/banned book! From the website:
"Banned Books Week emphasizes the freedom to choose or the freedom to express one's opinion even if that opinion might be considered unorthodox or unpopular and the importance of ensuring the availability of those unorthodox or unpopular viewpoints to all who wish to read them."


Why is this still an issue? Why are certain book still being banned or challenged? Shouldn't we have the right to read whatever we want? This is one subject that really angers me. I was reading over the list of books and, while I feel some may be inappropiate reading for young children, I could never go so far as to ban it completely! I don't want nor need anyone to tell me what I or my kids can/should read or what we can't/shouldn't read. I never censored what my kids read, I did steer them towards book that were age-specific and what I thought was appropiate, but I encouraged them to read as much as they could. Shoot, I was looking over the list and saw Catcher in the Rye listed. My almost 15 yr old has that book because I bought it for him. Actually, I think he's read at least a 1/3 of the books listed!

By Tonya on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 10:45 am:

Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer, Harry Potter and Of Mice and Men. What were people thinking. I read all of those except the Harry Potter when I was in school because they just came out in the last 4 yrs or so. Who are these people who think they can ban these books?

By Melanie on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 11:37 am:

Where's Waldo?????? LOL. Wow, some people have too much time on their hands!

I recognize a lot of the titles as ones I enjoyed as a kid. It's insane that one small, loud group can actually have books banned like this. Who are they to say what is right for my children??

By Ginnyk on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 11:43 am:

Say thank you to your librarians - they are the people who fight book banning day after day, year after year, and fight for the right for you and me to read whatever we want to read.

I am all for parental censorship of their own children's reading, TV watching, movies, etc. I did it myself, fairly strictly and strenuously, and I'm pleased to say that it paid off in what my sons like to read/watch and what they don't. But I wouldn't dream of telling any other parent what their children should or shouldn't read. (I do, however, like the supermarkets that put plastic barriers in magazine racks over magazines with suggestive or downright show it all covers. (Does anyone remember when you could read Cosmopolitan without a brown paper wrapper? Sigh!)

By Ginnyk on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 11:53 am:

As for your question, Sunny, why are books still being banned? Well, it is because small groups of people believe they have the right to impose their values on everyone else. And sometimes large groups of people believe this.

My position - believe what you want and enforce it within your own family/group. But don't try to impose your standards on me. And, I will not try to impose my standards and values on you - I will present them and debate them, and work to elect people whom I believe will best represent my point of view, but I will not ask for laws that attempt to enforce my values.

Laws and morals are NOT the same thing, even though it appears that many laws are based on standards of morality. Laws are a structure that enables human beings to live together in groups and provide for the protection of human life and limb and property. Almost all laws derive from this. That laws reflect some of the foundation of the Judeo-Christian ethic is not coincidental - the 10 commandments, like the Code of Hammurabi, the pre-Christ Roman and Greek legal codes, etc., have rules that you cannot kill without punishment, nor assault, nor steal nor cheat. Every group of people that attempts to live as a group has these basic rules in its codes.

By Jewlz on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 03:11 pm:

yesss Ginny u said it for me .... ive even gone as far as discussed the book with my kids and read it before then did and then we talked about it as they read it so they would see why some people would want to censor it ... or i have asked them to wait to read it till they are a bit older to understand the language in it ... no one should ban a book ...its called communication ... huck fin and many others are part of literature history ... and if people dont read them we will loose a part of our history ...

By Jewlz on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 03:28 pm:

yeah and whats with wheres waldo ?

By Pamt on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 05:07 pm:

Hey Ginny! Guess what? We agree on something! :) :) :) Couldn't have said it better myself. I am also pleased to report that I have read 27 of the 100 banned books. Beloved, Deenie, James and the Giant Peach, To Kill a Mockingbird?? Give me a break!

By Mommyathome on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 05:11 pm:

Of Mice And Men was required reading for our English class in High School.

And, what's up with Where's Waldo??? LOL That is ridiculous.

If these *people* would focus their efforts on a worthwhile problem in our country, rather than the banning books crusade, maybe they could help make the world a better place.

By Ginny~moderator on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 05:45 pm:

Jewlz, I'm delighted that we agree - and we often do. Now, can I ask you a great favor? As politely and humbly as is possible, can I request that you try to not use chatroom style in your posts at Momsview. I sometimes find it difficult sometimes to read your posts, when "u" use abbreviations such as one letter for a word or other chatroom style typing - your style distracts me from your content (and, I understand that it may not affect others the same way). I really, really, really don't want to offend you and if I do I very sincerely apologize, but I feel I "know" you well enough by now to mention this. I hope you will understand that this is a simple (and minor) request and that I truly do not want to offend you in any way by making the request.

By Ginny~moderator on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 05:45 pm:

And, PamT, I suspect that we agree more often than either of us know - it is difficult to tell on a bulletin board, but I think if we were neighbors we'd get along just fine in most ways.

By Dawnk777 on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 12:03 am:

I remember seeing a disply of challenged books in the Young Adult section of the library.

Glanced at the list. I have read lots of those, too. My mom was a librarian when she was working and was totally against banning books. So, we read Judy Blume and she would have let us read Harry Potter. As it was, she bought the first 4 Harry Potter books for us. We bought the 5th one ourselves.

I read Catcher in the Rye in high school and read it again in the last year or two because I couldn't remember what it was about.

Sarah read The Giver last year at school. She has also read The Day No Pigs Would Die at school.

I let my kids read anything they want pretty much, too.

By Trina~moderator on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 09:00 am:

Oh my goodness! Ditto what everyone has said above. Where's Waldo?! LOL! I've read many of the books listed, and as a student in high school and college. Bridge to Terabithia?! An excellent book I read to my 3rd graders when I was teaching. I've also read James and the Giant Peach and The Witches to my classes. Roald Dahl was a great writer. If they're that picky I'm surprised they didn't include the Captain Underpants series. LOL! *Shaking my head*

By Sunny on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 09:13 am:

Trina, Take a look at this list.
From the website:
The following books were the most frequently challenged in 2002:

Harry Potter series, by J.K. Rowling, for its focus on wizardry and magic.
Alice series, by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor, for being sexually explicit, using offensive language and being unsuited to age group.
"The Chocolate War" by Robert Cormier (the "Most Challenged" book of 1998), for using offensive language and being unsuited to age group.
"I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" by Maya Angelou, for sexual content, racism, offensive language, violence and being unsuited to age group.
"Taming the Star Runner" by S.E. Hinton, for offensive language.

"Captain Underpants" by Dav Pilkey, for insensitivity and being unsuited to age group, as well as encouraging children to disobey authority.
"The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" by Mark Twain, for racism, insensitivity and offensive language.
"Bridge to Terabithia" by Katherine Paterson, for offensive language, sexual content and Occult/Satanism.
"Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry" by Mildred D. Taylor, for insensitivity, racism and offensive language.
"Julie of the Wolves" by Jean Craighead George, for sexual content, offensive language, violence and being unsuited to age group.

By Melanie on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 10:31 am:

LOL, Trina. Looks like you spoke too soon!

By Juli4 on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 10:40 am:

wow amazing that they are willing to censor sexual content in books that people choose to pick up and read and are quite capable of censoring themselves but they are not willing to challenge t.v. programs and internet porn being advertised to anyone even underage children. Seems kindof backwards.

By Trina~moderator on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 07:36 pm:

LOL! I guess I did speak too soon, Melanie! DS absolutely LOVES the Captain Underpants books. He has whizzed through every single one and is excited because the newest issue is being released this week. Not quality literature IMHO, but full of boy humor and harmless. He's READING and enjoying himself.

Again, I've read quite a few of the books listed above and think these people are being far too anal.

Good point, Juli4!

By Melanie on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 08:15 pm:

LOL, Trina. At the boys' school each year they have a book fair. The kids can go in and make a "Wish List" for their parents. Of course, both of them chose Captain Underpants books. Oh well, it gets them reading, even if I can't fully appreciate the humor! LOL.

By Annie2 on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 09:33 pm:

What if "Capt. Underpants" was instead "Miss Panties"?

By Sunny on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 10:46 pm:

What if "Capt. Underpants" was instead "Miss Panties"? Doesn't matter to me. IF parents find it inappropriate for their kids, they can reserve the right to not allow their kids to read it, but another parent may feel differently.

I admit to never having read any Captain Underpants books so I did a search on Amazon. I read some reviews and it seems harmless enough to me. I then asked my 11 yr old if he has read any of the Capt. books, and he said he has read one, but didn't like it. He said it's not his style! LOL

By Ginny~moderator on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 11:18 pm:

Oh come on, Annie2. Wouldn't she be Captain Panties - or at least Lt. Panties?

Haven't seen or read them, but they are joining a long list of darned good reading.

I agree, Juli. Seems people are quite willing to do self or family censorship for TV, but some want to censor everyone's reading. Personally, I censored TV and movies rigorously, but much less so with books. That's partly because in reading a child has to bring his own mental images to the story - which is why I encourage reading. And, I am one of those people much more affected by images than by words, so I censored images a lot more strenuously.

By Kaye on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 04:54 pm:

Okay I have to get in on this. Although fundamentally I don't agree with censorship, there are still some fuzzy lines for me. There are books and content that just aren't appropriate for some ages. For example, Judy Blume has a book called Forever that goes into pretty explicit detail of a sexual encounter. I really don't want my 3rd or 4th grader reading this. I don't the answer on how to make these things not so available to young kids when our schools tend to bridge such large age gaps. Although I can teach my kids at home, we read at home, I also know if they really want to read something I can't stop them (they can hide it, etc). So in a public school I do hope that they censor some books based on content. The public library can carry whatever though. My other pet peeve is classroom reading. I have made a decision to not let my children read Harry Potter for a number of reasons. But in some schools this is mandatory reading. What I don't get is how when things are too Christian based how schools can step back and say we don't want to offend parents, but when thing are known to be offensive for other reasons we don't shy away from just making them deal with it. My daugher is an avid reader and I earnestly try to read every book she does. I just feel like I want to know what she is hearing. For example "double fudge" another judy blume book, at the end talks about how the tooth fairy isn't real. Well I wasn't going to stop her from reading that book, but I did have some concerns about giving up the tooth fairy! So after we read it (seperately) we talked about it. Now I have three kids, I won't be able to do this forever, but as long as I can I will. I think as a school we have the job to protect our children from bad influences and sometimes that means books are not available in the schoo library. I don't know the answer, but I do know the more we allow and don't fight the worse it will get. Think about television, when we were children we watched the cosby show at 7 pm and it was a clean family show. If any language was going to be on a show it would be in the later shows. Then Rosanne came, she used the B word...but did people quit watching, nope! So now almost any tv show on prime time you will hear language that is just unappropriate! So by complaining I think we make a difference! Oh and on a different note...the where's waldo book was censored because one of the pages had a nude sunbather. Gotta love the humor of artists in a children's book..NOT!

By Ginny~moderator on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 05:42 pm:

I don't know if public schools censor books on content, but I do know teachers and librarians seriously discuss book content and whether specific books are appropriate for the age groups in the school.
I find it hard to believe that Harry Potter is "required reading". Most teachers hand out a list of books in elementary school, and students pick from the list for books to read for writing book reviews. To the best of my knowledge when a specific book is required and a parent has objections the parent can write to or speak with the teacher, state the reason for objecting, and have a different book assigned.
In high school certain books are required for English classes so that the students can discuss the book in class. I remember when my middle son read Catcher in the Rye. He loved it. I read it to see what it was about, and my overall reaction was "that poor boy".

I read a review of "Forever" and agree, I would not want an elementary school girl reading it. But at some point girls (and boys) need to have some factual information about sex and they need to begin to understand how feelings can run away with values and common sense. The reviews I read make this book sound like a good one for that.

As for the nude sunbather in Waldo, many resorts in Europe have nude beaches. I do think, however, since it is a children's book, it could just have easly been left out.

The whole thing about religion in schools - public schools have children from all religious backgrounds, so a specifically Christian presentation is disrespectful of the religions followed by those who are not Christian. Personally, I would like to see schools teach about all religions, partly for the information and partly because in this country how Christianity and Christian beliefs affected history is important to know, and it is also important to know what other people believe and how their beliefs have shaped their countries and regions. But teaching ABOUT religion is not the same thing as teaching or promoting a specific faith.

I'll repeat - I fully support your controlling (to the best of your ability) what your children see and read. This is proper parental behavior. I would not for a minute want to force my views of appropriate reading material on your children or anyone else.

(I remember that when I was about 14 I read Forever Amber, which was quite an adult book - my parents had it and I read it. When I was in 12th grade I wanted to borrow Tontine from my school library - I think it's by Costain - and was told it was an adult book and could not be taken out by students.)

By Bea on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 11:59 pm:

As a child, I read anything I could get my hands on. Many times these materials were inappropriate for someone my age. I took in what I understood. I asked questions about what didn't make sense to me. I came to realize that the values my family believed in were not that of everyone. Did reading some sexually explicit matter cause me to (act out sexually)? Did it satisfy my curiosity? Did it cause hair to grow on my palms? No No No. I read The Complete Works Of William Shakespeare before I was 12, simply because it was in the bookcase at home. All of this dealt with adult themes. For months I would clutch my chest moaning, "There rust and let me die." Did I want to take a lover, or commit suicide? No! Was it a beginning of my understanding of great literature? Yes! I read The Percy Wynn Tom Playfair Series, (a group of highly moralistic books, written in the early 1900s for Good Catholic Boys). I can assure you they didn't make my Saturday trips to the confessional less frequent. I read the Mandingo trash, Payton Place, The Song Of Bernadette and The Seven Storey Mountain....all before I was 15. I really don't think I would stop a child from reading any book. I might suggest waiting until they were older, or ask if they would come and discuss what they'd read, after finishing it. If I thought there was a problem developing because of a direction his reading tastes were going, I might step in. But I think reading is learning, and learning is growing.


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