My Son the Target
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive January-June 2005:
My Son the Target
One boy in my son's preschool class keeps hurting him. Today, Randy wanted to play with him and the kid bit his hand!
I really don't know what to do. My son is very sweet and gentle. Do I start teaching him to hurt back? It's really not my philosophy, but I don't know how else to give this kid the message that my son is not his personal punching bag.
Any advice?
Ame
What is the teacher doing about it?
I would teach your son to say in a REALLY loud voice "Stop! Do not hit/bite me again!" I mean really loud, not screaming but loud. It will get the teacher's attention and probably stun the little bully.
Have you talked to the preschool teacher? Usually they will talk to the other childs parents and get this resolved. That is really horrible that your son is trying to reach out and this child is not very nice to him.
LOL Jann! I did that. We role played a situation just like that. I said just what you said. My son got this really scared look on his race and then cried!
I'm really dealing with a sensitive child.
Ame
I meant face - not race, sorry.
The teacher's response has basically been just to talk to the parent and give the kid a time out. It's not working.
Ame
It sounds like that bully is taking advantage of your sensitive child. 
I would walk up to the child, say something like I really dont like you hurting my boy and I want you to stop it, look MEAN! You never know, it may work w/ having you say something instead of the teacher or his parents. Dont do anything that will get you trouble, just make sure he understands you mean business.
Bless his heart! Have you roled played on how he would like to handle the situation? Maybe give him several different options, let him think of some too and narrow down from there.
Hey, this is a pre-school program. To me that means that the program doesn't necessary have to accept or keep children who are problems. If the parents and teacher cannot stop this boy from hurting your ds, then I think you need to say that either they control the child, the child is removed from your son's class, or your son is placed in a better situation - by them or by you.
If time outs don't work for the kid, then I think the teacher needs to call the mother/father and tell them little Johnny needs to be taken home as he will not stop hurting other children.
I would definitely NOT speak to the child myself - you have no idea how this might be interpreted and you don't want to be labeled as someone who threatens children. You would then be the "troublemaker".
Ditto Ginny. I don't think you have a right to confront a child that age, or any child. My feelings about that stem from issues we had in the neighborhood where one Mom would verbally attack everyone's children and it was very upsetting to the kids and the parents.
Anyway, I would insist that the pre-school deal with it. When mine were in pre-school, there was a child in Jen's class who was a biter. Twice I picked her up and there were bite marks on her arm. I spoke with the teacher and then I spoke with the owner/administrator. She handled it directly with the parents. That type of behavior wasn't tolerated. Between the staff and the parent of the other child, they came up with a discipline plan to stop the other child from doing this and everything worked out fine. The owner did tell me that she had, in the past, had to tell a parent their child could no longer attend there because of a similar problem.
A lot of kids bite when they are teething, or acting out, and most of them get the message when they are disciplined for it. But there are those who seem to start young being a bully, and now is the time for corrective action.
Good luck!!!!!
Okay from the parent of one of those kids. Some kids are just mean, others just don't get it. My son has bitten, he has tackled, etc. He has some social issues, this does not make him the bad child. You don't really know what you are dealing with here. I am sorry your son is his target. You say that it is not working, but ultimately you don't know that either, he may have gone from having one incident every day to only once a week. What my son needs is for someone to tell him what he is doing wrong, he just doesn't get it. He is not a bully, I really doubt this kid is too. What you need to teach your son, it that when people do things you don't like you need to tell them. When he touches tell him not loudly, but to say "stop, I don't like that" and then walk away. This will teach that child an important lesson and your son will also be learning some important things, like setting boundries with others.
As parents we need to realize that more and more children are having social issues, the incidence of autism and aspergers are increasing every year. This isn't because of bad parenting, or mean kids, it just is. We need to teach our children how to handle children with special needs while still protecting our kids. No parent wants to see their child hurt, but it is NOT the right answer to hurt back.
Ditto, Kaye. I have to say, I've been on both sides of this one- and it's MUCH easier to be the parent of the bitee than the biter IMHO. Please don't label a preschooler a bully! You have no idea what is going on here.
I would follow up with the school and let them know your concerns and that it is still going on. Perhaps someone can keep a close eye on the interactions of the two kids.
I think my post disappeared.....they need to shadow the other child so these situations do not happen. The teacher should already be doing this. Then they can redirect the other child.
Kaye, while I understand your position, it is easier said than done when your child is the one being hurt. I am sorry, but no one should just accept that this is behavior that should be tolerated because a child might have social issues. Children should be able to go to daycare and school and not have to worry about being hurt!! The behavior needs to stop one way or another. No one should have to put up with that! I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that I wouldn't put up with my child getting bitten and hurt as described in the post. I would definately talk with the teachers and see exactly what they are doing to protect your child.
Ditto Kim. I think we both work in preschools. You need to tell the teacher that this needs to stop. If it was a one time thing that would be one thing, but if it is continually happening then the issue needs to be addressed. Is this preschool private or is it in the public school?
The mom called me last night and apologized. She seemed very nice and sincerely sorry. I accepted her apology and told her that my concern was not just this one incident, but a pattern of behavior. I asked what she was doing with him to correct his aggressiveness. I suggested she do some role play with him of acceptable ways to interact, or to show his feelings. I got the distinct impression that she felt he was just "being a boy". That made me mad.
I know all children are different. My son's not perfect, but I am blessed in that he is good natured and not violent. However, just as this child has a right to a safe environment in which to learn, so does my son. With all due respect to the mommies on the other side of the fence, why does dealing with this boy's issues need to be my problem? Or my son's problem?
Luckily this time the injury was minor. What if the next time it's serious! How would you feel knowing you sent your child into a situation, knowing the risk, and he got hurt. In one incident, this child shoved a plastic toy in Randy's eye.
As far as increased supervision, the teacher was standing right there! Why she didn't intervene sooner, I don't know. It's also not fair to the others in the class that one of the teachers needs to shadow this child. I also don't want to take my son out, because frankly he loves it and he does not deserve to be punished.
Do you know that when the teacher made the boy apologize, Randy smiled at him and said, "That's okay". I don't think I could teach him to hurt back if I tried.
I think the only acceptable solution for me is to have this child removed from the class, or for a caregiver to have to attend with him for a while. Perhaps he or she will see the warning signs and be able to prevent violence.
The school gets a letter from my husband tomorrow putting them on notice that they need to take some action (isn't that just like a lawyer)
I want to thank everyone who responded. I didn't make a big deal out of the previous incidents because I felt for the child. I'm not heartless, I know that each child has his or her own issues, but when those issues hurt my son, then I find it very hard to be understanding.
Thanks again,
Ame
I had a similar situation when my ds was in preschool last year. There was a boy that was hitting, biting, and yelling at several dks in the class(including my ds) He required constant "watching" by the teacher. I know that the teacher was constantly talking with the parents trying to fix the problem. However, his bad behavior continued and didn't get any better. My ds got to the point that he didn't want to go to school because of him. I told my ds to just walk away from him if he started bothering him, but the boy would just follow him. I talked to the teacher a few times and she said they were trying to correct the problem with the parents help. After a month of my ds constantly coming home upset about this boy, I told the teacher that it was just not acceptable anymore. His teacher said that there were several other parents complaining too. They ended up pulling this child out of the school. I am sure it was at the school's request.
I do understand that some dks have social issues and it doesn't make them a bully. However, I don't think the other children in the class should have to deal with the behavior if it can't be fixed. In the case of the boy that was bothering my ds, his mother had just had another baby. I saw him on many occasions crying in the mornings about not wanting to go to school. I think he just didn't want to be there or was not ready to be in school.(it was a class of young 3 yr. olds).
How old is your son? How often is he in school? What do you mean by alot? School is 3/4 the year over, if this was this big of an issue, don't you think other parents would be complaining?
I really wish you all would reread this post and think about the above questions. You are very possilby labeling a 2 year old (based on profile) as a bully and are on the band wagon to get him kicked out of school. He may not be old enough to be there. But ultimately toddlers are toddlers, sometimes they make bad choices (at least mine did).
Why does this need to be your problem? Well I guess that is part of life, we all have to get along on this world together and have some grace and tolerance towards others. Or you can choose to never go out with others. My middle kid is very smart, I sure hate that we have to deal with the slow kids in class, while he is bored out of his mind, but that is part of society. No two kids are alike and their needs are different, so if you want your sons needs to be met then you have to let them do so for other kids too.
I can't speak for others, but I am not calling the child a bully! I am calling him someone that hurts someone else! And I am right there where you are with the smart child being bored out of her mind waiting on the slow kids in the class, but there is a big difference between that and your child being hurt in a place that should be safe for them to be!!
Before you read my response I am asking that you do not take my tone for granted. I usually come off wrong.
This is not a "bad" child. He is a child with a problem. Two year olds (and yes, some three)bite! It is a fact of life! I also think some of you are being harsh on this child. I've worked with these kinds of kids. They need redirection and to be taught how to use their words/respond appropriately. I feel, as a daycare worker, that it is my job to help that child. Especially since some of these kids are there for up to 12 hours a day. It is also my job to shadow a child AND still take care of my other primaries. Its very fair. It doesn't detract from my job I don't believe. That child is just my special friend and it gives me more opportunity to interact with other kids while teaching that child what is and is not appropriate.
How can you all say "make them remove the child from the school...." That's goofy to me. Make them have appropriate staff to handle the situation. I also think this child is being pushed into a stereotype at an early age. He may find words and never hurt another child again. Or something else. KWIM? Yes, I have had a child picked on and hurt before. I have also had one of my children hurt someone else. Kids like that NEED socialization. Some kids are just more extreme and don't know their boundaries yet.
That "bully" is probably a sensitive child also. And please also note that sometimes the child being hurt ends up doing some other behaviour that affects another child. We had a child being bitten and she left the school. She then went to a new school and became an agressor. And it wasn't biting.
What should parents of bullies and other such kids do? Children like my Kayla, who had no boundaries at 2/3 and had several meltdowns a day would not be allowed in daycare. How would I have a job?
Ame, no disrespect, but the mother probably reacted the way she did because she was receiving another lecture on how bad her child is! Maybe she did not want to discuss her son and his problems with you. I give her kudos for even calling to apologize. A lot of parents wouldn't have even done that. I think the teacher should be the intermediary and if that doesn't work then it should be the director of the school.
I am sticking with my opinion. I think they need to teach their staff how to better handle children in these situations. I am sorry for your son, Ame. I don't like to see any child hurt and I am not advocating that at all.
I have not used the word bully. I do not think any child is a bully at this age. My son is in a class with 2's and young 3's. The boy and my son are both young 3's. They are together three mornings a week for a two hour session.
Kaye, I'm sorry this seems to have struck a nerve with you. I'm sorry that you seem to have taken it personally. Please remember, this is not about your son, it's about mine. And I'm not about to "grace and tolerance" my son's way to the ER. This is the third time my son has been hurt by the same child. We reach a breaking point. This is mine.
I do not understand your "alot" question. What do you mean?
As for the year being almost over, and other parent complaining, this is not about other kids getting hurt - this is about my boy. For all I know, other parents may have complained. It seems the teacher has to talk to this child's caregiver every day. In fact, when I passed by to pick him up, I overheard the teacher telling her about an incident. Honestly, I thought, "Gee, I wonder who the victim was today?"
It's very easy to be wonderful and gracious and utopian - unless your kid is getting hurt - and the degree of hurt is escalating!
I do think the issue is not all or nothing. We can have tolerance or we can chose to insulate ourselves? That's not quite practical. We go out in society with a reasonable degree of security. Shouldn't it be the same in a preschool class?
My son's needs should be met, and so should the other boy's as long as meeting his needs does not put my child in danger! I need to know what the school plans to do to ensure the reasonable safety of my child before I can feel comfortable leaving him in that environment. I also need strategies to teach my son how to deal with this child, because this child's problem has become mine, even though I don't want it.
The parent and the school also need to take responsibilty and deal with this.
And yes, there is a huge difference between a bored kid and a physically hurt kid. Still, the school should be doing something to meet the needs of your smart child.
I don't mean for anyone to be offended, or hurt or become defensive about this post. Obviously, all children have issues, I am just seeking practical ways to deal with this problem.
Ame
BTW - this child does not appear to be a special needs child, nor does he have trouble verbalizing. I did not lecture the mom. I gave her a suggestion - after she as much admitted that she doesn't know what to do with him. I think calling and apologizing did take courage, but it was the least she could have done. We left off on good terms.
To clarify - this is a private preschool, not a daycare.
Ok, three mornings a week for two hour sessions? I am sorry, but I definitely think the staff should be questioned and held accountable. Are their ratios correct? Are they stretched for staff? If you stood and watched the teacher not catch the issue then maybe that's a good place to start. If there is a child with issues we sometimes overstaff a room. I am not saying the parents are not responsible and should not be accountable.
Ame, I wasn't thinking he had "special needs". I am thinking he is just being three.
Ratios are three adults to 9 children. And if he's "just being three" or just being "a boy" then why don't all the other kids, including my son, act the same way? Where does "just being three" end, and being a kid who needs to be controlled begin? Again, I don't think he's mean, or a bully, or "bad". I do think he needs to be watched, or needs to go.
Kim - that's exactly what I'm afraid of. I don't want my son to become an aggressor. I don't want him to see that another child can hurt him and get away with it - just getting a time out. Kids respect boundaries until they cross them and find there is no real consequence. Then the real problem begins.
Ame, "Kids respect boundaries until they cross them and find there is no real consequence." unfortunately you will find that it only gets worse as the children get older because there are a lot of children with no boundaries out there these days (and I am not talking 2 and 3 year old children). I could share school horror stories, I bet we all can but I will save you from reading my book of complaints.. I suggest that you hold the school accountable. They after all are supposed to offer a safe place for your child.
Good luck today Ame. There is no reason this should be happening. There are plenty of adults in that room and if this child is a known aggressor then one of those teachers should be with him the whole time.
I've been on both sides of this fence. Right now my son is the one getting picked on. Sometimes it hurts but I try to remember that there was a time when I was the parent trying to copy with a child that bit.
It seems to me that the issue is not the child who is hurting the others. Great! Write a letter, petition the center to have the child removed, but from personal experience, there will be another to take his place. Maybe not this year, but there will be.
I'm surprised that you even know who the child is that is hurting yours, unless your son told you. Staff at our daycare will NOT discuss which child has done what. They will speak generically but that is all.
You should find out what the staff does when these things happen. Do they think it's working? Does the other child show remorse? No child will continue to show remorse past the initial incident, so you will probably never see it. What was the staff doing whent he indcident happened? What did they do to try to stop it?
These are all valid questions. To make my son stop biting, he shadowed a teacher. He became her left hip and never left it particularly when he was having a bad day. She never left him get into a situation that would allow him to bite. No rolling on the floor with other children. No hugging or kissing. This didnt' go on forever but it did until he learned. When the teacher saw that he was going to bite and she wasn't an arm reach away or didn't have that hand, she would speak rather loudly though not a yell, "Timmy, what are you doing?" It reminded him that he was being watched and to think before he did it.
The child will outgrow this. They all (except extreme cases) do. He will not be a high schooler and still running around biting his friends.
Hang in there.
Has the school said they would not watch the interactions? Have you mentioned your concerns to them?
Please pray about how blessed you are that your child is not the one displaying the anger.
And please don't jump to blaming the parents. You really have no idea what is going on. Unless you've btdt, you have no idea what it's like to be the other parent. I can't tell you how many times I have been crucified for my son's actions. Being his parent has opened my eyes and helped me to not jump to conclusions about people. I have no idea what is going on with this child. Obviously, something. That's not your place to figure it out though. Your place is to advocate for your child. That simply involves more close monitoring of their interactions. As far as intervention goes, that's an "easy" fix. Your child will be fine.
Sorry to hear, Ame. I wish the preschool had some sort of structured "3 times you're out" type rule? Maybe the parents would intervene more if they knew their child was risking the services they provide.
Laura, maybe I have come across blaming the parent. I don't. I do think the parent needs to take some responsibility, however, and try to find something that will work to help her son's aggression. And sadly, as others have pointed out, it has become my problem.
I want to thank everyone for helping out. Even the moms who think I'm overreacting or just not understanding of this child's needs.
Colette and Heidi, thanks for your encouragement this morning. I've sent him off with great anxiety. Sending him to school was joyous for me because he loves it so and I was able to relax, knowing he was someplace safe. I don't know that it will be that way again. I'm very worried.
We sent no letter and have called for no action, except that the staff be much more watchful. I don't want this child hurt any more than I want my son hurt.
But... If he hurts my baby on more time - then I'm through being understanding. I will ask that he be removed. And at that point, I think I have every right to do so.
Thanks again, ladies. It's great to have a backyard fence that reaches across so many miles - both literally and figuratively.
Ame
Ame - I can imagine how anxious you are waiting for him to come home. Please let us know how it goes.
It was fine today. We'll see as time goes on.
Thanks again!
Ame
I just wanted to say that I worked in daycare as a college student. Sometimes the teacher can do everything right and it can still happen. We had a boy who tormented this one little girl. He would occasionally bite others. We as the teacher did everything. One time he was sitting next to the teacher. She looked up to answer a questions and he leaned around her and bit the girl on the other side. It was awful. We had no support from the parent or the director except just figure it out. We went to putting the boy in a play pen such as when we were changing diapers and could not be near him. He would reach out of the play pen and bite as the girl went by. I know this was an extreme case, this boy had definate problems. I was just trying to make the point that teachers sometimes also do all they can do and some kids just do have to go. I would defiately look at how the preschool handled it also. I mean imo are director was useless. She let this go on for probably 6 months or more before they finally made them leave. Not to mention that this a lot of the time would happen before I arrived and but since I was the teacher there when the parent picked up. I had to tell her it happened again and again and again. Imagine how much abuse I took. I would think at this point since it has happened to your child 3x's already the director should be calling you personally with anymore problems. I hope things get better. There is not an easy answer. But I do understand you not wanting your child to get hurt and you have to look after your child first.
I have also been on the "other side of the coin". My son was the biter.... and I was devastated. I literally cried almost every day it happened. I had constant interaction with the teachers and director and we had constant discussion of it at home. Most of the discipline/discussions did not work, he just finally stopped one day.
I am very glad the mother called you personally. It was my preschool policy not to tell the biter and victim, but come on - it gets out and very fast. I fortunately knew alot of parents in this class and would call each of them every time there was an incident, just to check on their child and ensure them we were doing all we knew to correct the behavior. I do say though, that no parent ever asked me what the discipline was or gave me advice. That may have been frustrating for me to hear, given that we were coming from 2 totally different angles.
I tell you my side just so you know that the other side of the story can be (and definitely for us) just as upsetting. It was horrible to know that everyone thought of your child as the bad kid and that your parenting was under the microscope for all to judge.
Good luck and hang in there...in my experience, it resolved by the end of the year with no real injuries.
Well, Elizabeth, I certainly appreciate the input and your sharing. It may have been frustrating for you to hear a parent question what was being done or to give advice, (perhaps you were more up on strategies than this mom is) Hoewever, think how frustrating for ME to hear her say, "He's just being a boy!" That just gives him permission and implied approval! Think how frustrating for me to have to wonder if my son will be victimized today or not.
As far as the other parents in the class, I didn't say a word about this. To a parent, they all wanted to know how my son was and what was going to be done to stop this from happening again! So, I wasn't the only one concerned.
And I've said it repeatedly, I never posted that I thought she was a bad parent or her kid was a bad kid. I'm not judging anyone - however, I am now starting to feel like I'm the one being judged and misrepresented.
As far as real injuries - my son was bitten by another person, on purpose, someone he plays with. This is the third time this same child has hurt him. What does that do to a child mentally? Does it mess with their ability to trust? Does it make them afraid? We don't really know, do we?
This am my son was all excited about going to school. He went into his usual litany of naming all his friends. He named the boy who bit him and then got a look of surprise on his face and then sadness. "Mommy! I don't think (Name) is my friend!"
I had to explain that he was his friend, just that Name probably didn't understand yet that we don't bite people. My son nodded and said, "Yes, he doesn't know hands are not for biting, food is for biting."
Ame
I was a daycare teacher for years. I worked mostly for Kinder Care. Some were good, some were not so good. It depended on the Director and the Staff. My experience is about five years old so I do not know if daycare allows this anymore or not. But this is what I did.
I had a room with 14 2 year olds. I was supposed to have an Assistant but they walked in and out with regularity and never stayed long. So most of the time either I was on my own or training someone.
When we had the occaisional biter, I used ice. I took a washcloth from the kitchen and put crushed ice in it from the front of the refrigerator, where the teachers get drinks. Then I sat the biter in a chair with the ice and instructed them to bite the ice. It froze their gums and helped ease the "wanting to bite"sensation. Not only that, but the little ones didn't like being isolated and told to "bite the ice" so it helped as a deterrent, too. And yes, sometimes, the ice melted and their clothes got a little wet but it was just water and it soon dried.
Eventually, it had the desired effect and when I saw a biter starting to aim, I could just say, "Robbie, do you need some ice??" and the biter stopped, mid-aim, as it were.......
I could be wrong and I hesitate to make this statement, but as a Mom you have a right to know that the majority of the time that I saw biting behavior it was in overcrowded classrooms where kids were not getting the supervision/attention they needed. Sometimes when the kids feel crowded or ignored, at this age, they bite. I could be wrong, I have never seen your center, but I would go so far as to say 80% of the time, if I had a biting incident it was one of the days I was on my own, or the class was having an "off" day as a whole.
You might suggest the washcloth with ice inside for the biter. It might help. M&M
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